Popen Thread

by Kieran Healy on February 11, 2013

Pope Benedict steps down and surely Mitt Romney thinks, “One door closes, another door opens”. Or maybe the FAI could engineer a swap for Giovanni Trappatoni. Either way, the field seems wide open.

{ 93 comments }

1

phosphorious 02.11.13 at 3:15 pm

Can one nominate oneself for the position? I would make an AWESOME pope.

2

Chris Brooke 02.11.13 at 3:15 pm

The Tony Blair for Pope campaign is well underway on Twitter, at @tonyforpope.

3

Pub Editor 02.11.13 at 3:19 pm

Somewhere, Dan Brown is feverishly working on a manuscript, having already left a voice message for Tom Hanks.

4

Glen Tomkins 02.11.13 at 3:22 pm

Don’t count me out. Looking at the historical record, the mere fact that I’m an immoral atheist wouldn’t seem to be at all a disqualifier.

5

Niall McAuley 02.11.13 at 3:24 pm

I don’t really have a preference for who should be Pope, but I would like them to choose the Pontifical name Hilarius II.

6

Chris Bertram 02.11.13 at 3:27 pm

We need another Pope Joan, and Joan Osborne is the obvious choice (and in Rome she’d get to talk to Him on the phone).

7

Steve LaBonne 02.11.13 at 3:27 pm

Nah, the name they should choose is George Ringo I.

8

Chris Bertram 02.11.13 at 3:27 pm

… alternatively, Mario Balotelli.

9

Scott P. 02.11.13 at 3:31 pm

There have been five Pope Sixtus’s in history, so I have been wanting for some time for some Pope to become Sixtus the Sixth (or Sixtus Sextus in Latin).

10

Pub Editor 02.11.13 at 3:46 pm

The next pope should take the style Lando II.

11

chris y 02.11.13 at 3:47 pm

On the authority of no less than St. Malachy (or possibly St. Malarky): in persecutione extrema S.R.E. sedebit Petrus Romanus, qui pascet oues in multis tribulationibus: quibus transactis ciuitas septicollis diruetur, & Iudex tremendus iudicabit populum ſuum. Finis.

Hold onto your hats.

12

Tiny Hermaphrodite, Esq. 02.11.13 at 3:52 pm

Mrs. Tilton, if you’re reading this, now would be an excellent time for your Star-Wars-themed pope joke. kthxbai

13

rf 02.11.13 at 3:55 pm

“Can one nominate oneself for the position? I would make an AWESOME pope.”

Seconded. Eight more votes and you get to the Papal conclave at least. Best of luck

14

Substance McGravitas 02.11.13 at 4:23 pm

Phosphorious wished to be pope,
But the consensus was certainly nope.
For the skill to dress up
And drink wine from a cup
Won’t replace a good reach-around grope.

15

reason 02.11.13 at 4:23 pm

“Can one nominate oneself for the position?”
I thought you had to be a Cardinal first. Don’t know whether baseball players would qualify though.

I sort of are curious where the next Pope will come from though. The center of gravity of the church has been shifting South. Maybe an African would be in the running. They picked a Pole and communism broke down. The German was always just a stop gap.

So maybe the threat from Islamists suggests that it might be expedient to pick a tropical African. Is there a suitable Candidate (Nigeria, Uganda, Sudan perhaps)?

16

Phil 02.11.13 at 4:26 pm

Chris – by jingo, I hadn’t thought of that angle. The boy Ratzinger’s just brought us a big step closer to the End Times!

Whoever it is, the guy should definitely take the name of Peter (or maybe that will be his name…) just to put the wind up the, er, Malachites.

17

William Timberman 02.11.13 at 4:26 pm

In the wake of the previous thread, I suppose we needed a little comic relief — a glimpse into what the politics of authoritarian government reduces to in the fullness of time. Fellini’s Vatican fashion show has never seemed more relevant, although those who favor robes and trappings over scrabbling for rats in the gutters will no doubt remain as oblivious as ever. If the gaucheries of the Romney campaign have left you feeling depressed and out of sorts, you should take heart and rejoice that Holy Mother Church is eternal.

18

Gene O'Grady 02.11.13 at 4:27 pm

You don’t have to be a cardinal. It used to be they could pick any Catholic male, but I believe that’s been changed to specify that he has to be a priest.

19

soru 02.11.13 at 4:29 pm

Betting firms have Peter Turkson from Ghana at 10/3, which is at least comfortably ahead of Bono @1000/1.

20

SamChevre 02.11.13 at 4:30 pm

In 2005, Cardinals Francis Arinze (Nigeria), Ivan Dias (India), and Julius Darmaatmadja (Indonesia) were considered strong candidates.

21

reason 02.11.13 at 4:30 pm

Aparently there is one serious Candidate from Ghana (Peter Turkson), who also is relatively young for a cardinal. Most of them seem to make the case that the church is a gerontocracy.

22

Adam 02.11.13 at 4:33 pm

I look forward to hearing Ian Harte claiming that Trappatoni didn’t even realise he was a catholic and available to represent the church, despite his fine recent form in his local parish.

23

Katherine 02.11.13 at 4:44 pm

I find myself wondering whether anyone is going to be sad to see him go. Catholics I mean. What has he done that anyone might admire or be happy about?

24

Substance McGravitas 02.11.13 at 4:45 pm

25

phosphorious 02.11.13 at 4:45 pm

Substance McGravitas,

What happens in the conclave STAYS in the conclave.

26

reason 02.11.13 at 4:52 pm

Phil @16
oh – oh PETER Turkson is the favourite! I mean he would also be the first black Pope. Omens everywhere!

27

Chris Brooke 02.11.13 at 4:52 pm

Paddy Power has Richard Dawkins at 666-1.

28

chris y 02.11.13 at 4:54 pm

Phil @16, yes I’m hoping it’ll be a Peter for that reason. I know nothing about Peter Turkson, who seems to be up among the favourites, so I don’t know if he’d be disastrous or merely pernicious. He’s only (!) 64, though, and I’m not sure they’ll risk a twenty year papacy again so soon.

29

reason 02.11.13 at 5:03 pm

chris y @28
” I’m not sure they’ll risk a twenty year papacy “

Why is it a risk for an conservative authoritarian organisation? I thought authoritarian organisations liked having a leader? Do you think they want constant in-fighting?

30

Pub Editor 02.11.13 at 5:20 pm

reason @ 29:

Even the people at the top of a highly centralized organization often do not want to give too much power to one individual (or for too long).

Plus, looking at popes since the Reformation, most popes do their best work in the first 10 years. After that, things change. Maybe the power corrupts more after more time. It was after the 10-year mark of Pius IX’s super-long reign that he started kidnapping Jewish boys and having himself declared infallible. As John Henry Newman said (circa 1870), “It is not good for a pope to live twenty years.”

Looking at it from a political economy perspective, each papal election gives the cardinals an opportunity to influence the direction of the organization in a major way, and so there is an incentive to not elect someone too young.

Also, Gene O’Grady is right: the elected pontiff doesn’t have to be a cardinal, although the last time the cardinals picked a non-cardinal (Urban VI, in 1378), it did not work out well. The last time they elected somone who was not in the room (a cardinal who hadn’t made it into town yet) was in 1522.

31

chris y 02.11.13 at 5:22 pm

reason @29. The constant infighting has been going on since the first century. They can handle that. But what if the guy they choose turns out to be unsound on some issue that crops up after a year or two? They don’t want to wait twenty years before they can take corrective action.

32

Salient 02.11.13 at 5:23 pm

Obama is the obvious choice. Hope for “Hope for Pope!”

The traditionalist wing of cardinals could drive around with bumper stickers saying “We’ll keep to Vatican I; you can keep the change.”

33

Sev 02.11.13 at 5:27 pm

Scott P. 02.11.13 at 3:31 pm
There have been five Pope Sixtus’s in history, so I have been wanting for some time for some Pope to become Sixtus the Sixth (or Sixtus Sextus in Latin).

And do you suppose he will, sext us?

34

Sev 02.11.13 at 5:27 pm

Scott P. 02.11.13 at 3:31 pm
There have been five Pope Sixtus’s in history, so I have been wanting for some time for some Pope to become Sixtus the Sixth (or Sixtus Sextus in Latin).

And do you suppose he will, sext us?

35

Steve LaBonne 02.11.13 at 5:38 pm

They don’t want to wait twenty years before they can take corrective action.

Oh, they’ve always had ways of dealing with that too. Just ask Celestine V, he of “il gran rifiuto”.

36

burritoboy 02.11.13 at 6:16 pm

The Pope does not have to be a Cardinal, though the last pontiff who wasn’t previously a Cardinal was elected in the late 14th century.

As a Catholic, I liked Benedict in many ways. John Paul II’s Lublin Thomism seemed dubious at best to me. Also, John Paul II was a bit too popularly oriented – I always had a bad feeling that people were liking the man a bit too much rather than the office. The Reaganite narrative of “John Paul II defeated communism” was also grossly overdone. Of course, Ratzinger was very close to John Paul II personally and organizationally, but he was admittedly quite a bit less charismatic – which, overall, I think was actually good for the Church as a whole.

Ratzinger also, I think, more correctly focused the Church on it’s core theoretical issues than John Paul II did, who was, in my opinion, somewhat too focused on feel-good evangelism over understanding.

37

burritoboy 02.11.13 at 6:29 pm

The infighting started at the beginning of Jesus’ ministry, probably. One does wonder whether John the Baptist really so easily gave up control of his own little sect. (Or, perhaps, how many of John’s followers transferred to the new dispensation without controversy?) Then there was the “who is going to sit at Jesus’ right hand?” controversy.

38

Doug 02.11.13 at 6:36 pm

No word yet on whether Cardinal Turkson has ever said to Obama, “U can br the President…”

39

chris y 02.11.13 at 6:41 pm

One does wonder whether John the Baptist really so easily gave up control of his own little sect.

Difficult to keep control when your head’s on a platter. But the Mandaeans are still around, so yeah, right from the get go. Pretty much like every other tradition/movement/institution then.

40

Tim Worstall 02.11.13 at 8:20 pm

“It used to be they could pick any Catholic male, but I believe that’s been changed to specify that he has to be a priest.”

I’m not even sure the first part is true. There’s a lot in tradition that says all sorts of things, priest, cardinal, Catholic and so on. But in the actual rules, the formal ones, I’m not sure (and open to correction of course) that Woody Allen or the Ayatollah Khamenei aren’t theoretically in the running. Even Pope Joan.

And this isn’t just from having watched A. Quayle movies. To be a bishop, sure, you have to be a priest, to be a cardinal etc. But Il Papa is, as far as I can remember, at least by the rules, the one equal opportunities job the Church offers.

41

burritoboy 02.11.13 at 8:34 pm

The pontiff is the bishop of Rome, so, yes, the person selected must fulfill the same requirements as that to occupy any other bishop’s seat – which, yes, means that Woody Allen (currently married), Ayatollah Khamenei (currently married) and Joan (can’t become a priest) aren’t in the running, unless they perform some fairly notable machinations (theoretically possible in some alternative universe for Allen and the Ayatollah). There could theoretically be a married pontiff if a priest of another denomination converted to Catholicism.

42

praisegod barebones 02.11.13 at 8:37 pm

This is good news for John McCain.

43

mjfgates 02.11.13 at 8:52 pm

Have they tried the route of picking up the smelliest, most incoherent, drunkest hobo they can find, and elevating him, on the “what you do unto the least of these…” principle? It would let them do that Japanese-emperor thing for a while. Good fun for everybody.

44

md 20/400 02.11.13 at 8:55 pm

They could pick a married priest who is in communion with Rome. Maronites and Melkites have them. That would be a hoot.

45

rf 02.11.13 at 8:56 pm

“Woody Allen (currently married), Ayatollah Khamenei (currently married) “

But would the Jew/Muslim thing have ruled them out? Genuine question, could the Pope, technically, not be a Catholic?

46

rf 02.11.13 at 8:58 pm

“Have they tried the route of picking up the smelliest, most incoherent, drunkest hobo they can find, and elevating him”

I thought that was what they generally did?

47

Josh G. 02.11.13 at 9:06 pm

Sadly, there’s little possibility that the College of Cardinals will elect someone willing to change the Catholic Church’s destructive and outdated policies on sex and gender. John Paul II and Benedict XVI appointed virtually all the cardinal-electors, so the next papal candidate will likely be someone in their theological mold. But they will probably try to help their public image by electing someone who is not associated with the sexual abuse scandals wracking the Church. There’s also a good chance that the elected candidate will be younger, more telegenic, and possibly non-white: Latin America and Africa have plenty of theologically conservative bishops and cardinals.

48

burritoboy 02.11.13 at 9:53 pm

Yes, the person selected would need to be Catholic, since non-Catholics can’t be ordained as Catholic priests (a bishop must be an ordained priest). One could become Catholic by being baptized, which, with the right dispensation, could happen at almost any time. So, in some alternative world, the person could theoretically convert/be baptized, be ordained and be seated as the bishop of Rome one rite immediately after another. Outside of the alternative world, that hasn’t ever happened.

49

ezra abrams 02.11.13 at 10:05 pm

aside from giving the child molester co conspirator cardinal of Boston a sinecure in Rome, Benedict was also responsible for this, from wiki:

Ratzinger defended and reaffirmed Catholic doctrine.. Dominus Iesus, published by the congregation in the jubilee year 2000, reaffirmed many recently “unpopular” ideas, including the Catholic Church’s position that “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” The document angered many Protestant churches by claiming that they are not actually churches, but “ecclesial communities”.[28]

copied from wiki
This is where I miss Alexander Cockburn, the only one with balls enough to call a spade a spade.

50

rf 02.11.13 at 10:13 pm

Does the Pope have to be a human then? Technically. Leaving aside the probabilities of, let’s say a dog, being elected, could it, by a clear eyed reading of scripture and relevant Papal bulls?

51

Gene O'Grady 02.11.13 at 10:18 pm

In response to #49, it was not Benedict XVI who gave Law his sinecure in Rome. It happened before he became pope. One feels, or at least I do, some sympathy for the guy because he has had to try to undo some of his predecessor’s bad deeds, as in Maciel and the papal election rules, without being too overt about it. And the resignation may be considered as a perhaps not too subtle critique of the way that predecessor let the place go to hell in the last few years of his papacy when he was physically and intellectually unable to do his job.

I have not read Dominus Iesus, but a guy I used to know who had read it, and whose opinion I trust, told me that, although the one paragraph always quoted was indeed very offensive, the rest of it was fairly innocuous.

52

Olivier 02.11.13 at 10:23 pm

Could we get an Italian who doesn’t go out much?

53

Olivier 02.11.13 at 10:36 pm

I agree with Gene O’Grady (#51). I think B16 kind of reigned in the whole pope-as-superstar business begun by JP2. Things got so nutty under his predecessor esp. toward the end: hundreds of new saints all lacking a popular cult, mugging with Bono, changing the Rosary, announcing the vision of Fatima was all about him, Schiavo-fest, etc. B16 instead just acted like a pope.

54

ben w 02.11.13 at 10:47 pm

I said it on Facebook and I’ll say it here: now would be a great time for the NYRB to start publicizing Hadrian the Seventh.

55

Uncle Kvetch 02.11.13 at 10:56 pm

So, in some alternative world, the person could theoretically convert/be baptized, be ordained and be seated as the bishop of Rome one rite immediately after another. Outside of the alternative world, that hasn’t ever happened.

Hey, don’t rule out Newt Gingrich: he probably has another 20 good years in him.

56

Substance McGravitas 02.11.13 at 11:14 pm

Gingrich would probably take a vacation in America in the middle of his Italian campaign.

57

Keir 02.11.13 at 11:26 pm

Could an artificial intelligence be Pope?

58

Alan 02.11.13 at 11:26 pm

PB in a nutshell: “I’m too pooped to Pope.” Probably sounded better in latin.

59

rf 02.11.13 at 11:54 pm

” Could an artificial intelligence be Pope?”

The elephant in the room..

60

David S. 02.12.13 at 12:02 am

I assume that in this case he’s not planning to “spend more time with his family”.

The Blair conversion may well be related however, he’s probably found it difficult to get absolution for that…

61

Suzanne 02.12.13 at 12:32 am

“One feels, or at least I do, some sympathy for the guy because he has had to try to undo some of his predecessor’s bad deeds, as in Maciel and the papal election rules, without being too overt about it.”

As shown in the recent and excellent HBO documentary “Mea Maxima Culpa,” Benedict acted against Maciel as soon as the latter’s protector, JPII, was out of the picture. Benedict is part and parcel of the ghastly and criminal institutional failure represented by the child molestation scandal, and his attempt to clean things up hasn’t always been adequate, to say the least, but he seems to have been far from the worst.

62

MJSS 02.12.13 at 12:47 am

Could an artificial intelligence be Pope?

Only in a Clifford Simak novel.

63

Tony Lynch 02.12.13 at 2:16 am

Th only decent Pope was a lawnmower.

64

Silvia 02.12.13 at 2:17 am

It’s Trapattoni, not Trappatoni!

65

David Irving (no relation) 02.12.13 at 2:47 am

The link to the acrobats upthread was awesome. I particuarly liked the pan to the nuns fanning themselves …

66

Jeet Heer 02.12.13 at 3:37 am

“Could an artificial intelligence be Pope?” Aside from the Simak novel mentioned there is also Robert Silverberg’s Good News From the Vatican, about the first robot Pope. Available on this pdf on a wonky (or badly typed out) version: http://ny.iadicicco.com/Finished/20,000%20Ebooks/Robert%20Silverberg/Robert%20Silverberg%20-%20Good%20News%20From%20the%20Vatican.pdf

67

Skeptic 02.12.13 at 4:29 am

I predict one of the underground cardinals in China will be the next Pope. It worked once. . . .

68

bad Jim 02.12.13 at 5:19 am

An African pope would probably antagonize a great many American Catholics, which would not be an altogether bad thing, from my point of view. A Latino would have much the same effect. Since a less conservative pontiff is apparently out of the question, an embrace of diversity is perhaps the most we can hope for.

69

Skeptic 02.12.13 at 5:32 am

Why the focus on Africans or Latinos, bad Jim, what about a Chinese Pope to challenge the PRC dictatorship?

70

Kenny 02.12.13 at 6:40 am

I suspect that an appropriately chosen inanimate object could be Pope. At least, it worked in Sikhism, so I don’t see why Catholicism couldn’t just choose their own eleventh guru:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Granth_Sahib

71

Tim Worstall 02.12.13 at 7:27 am

“So, in some alternative world, the person could theoretically convert/be baptized, be ordained and be seated as the bishop of Rome one rite immediately after another. Outside of the alternative world, that hasn’t ever happened.”

It’s come close in this one though. One of the Medicis perhaps? Priest, Cardinal and Pope all in a day or two?

72

bad Jim 02.12.13 at 7:28 am

Skeptic, you’re right, I completely overlooked the possibility of an Asian candidate. The always reliable Wikipedia has a sortable list of cardinals, and there are two in Hong Kong, three in the Philippines, seven in India, one each in Indonesia, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Thailand and Vietnam, and even one in Iraq.

Italians predominate. It seems odd that there are as many Swiss as Mexicans.

With respect to China I’d tend to assume that the pope’s influence there is if anything less than that of the Dalai Lama.

73

Peter Murphy 02.12.13 at 8:22 am

Poland has always been overwhelmingly Catholic, so having a “local boy” as Pope meant a lot in 1978. Catholicism has been always a very small minority in China. The nearest equivalent in Asia to Communist Poland would be the Philippines, but with 80% Christian, it wouldn’t have the same impact. They could try Việt Nam: 6% Catholic, mostly in the South, but still under some sort of Communism.

74

faustusnotes 02.12.13 at 8:26 am

I like the idea of an African pope. Then the idiots at NRO (isn’t Victor Davis Hanson a Catholic?) would have to deal with having a president and a pope from Kenya!

75

Hidari 02.12.13 at 8:52 am

“I suspect that an appropriately chosen inanimate object could be Pope.”

Let’s make Twitter the next Pope then. It would be good to know that all the strident and mutually incompatible views held on social media would suddenly become infallible.

76

Maria 02.12.13 at 9:07 am

Katharine @23, as a peripatetic one of the flock, my view comprises a little sympathy and respect for Ratzinger on the personal level, relief that he’s going, but no hope whatever that his stacked, right wing cardinals won’t elect someone probably from outside Europe but in more or less the same ideological mold.

It’s kind of annoying that the BBC and Channel 4 news coverage is painting the choice as between ‘someone like Benedict’ and ‘a reformer’, when the historical reality is it’s between ‘another reactionary and destroyer of Vatican II’ and ‘a middle of the roader’. I suppose it’s just what happens when you shift everything to the right (and when semi-informed reporters reach for old tropes).

77

Maria 02.12.13 at 9:09 am

I forget who asked, but a pope from China is out of the question. The Chinese Catholic Church isn’t considered to be fully in communion with the Vatican, as the PRC has a hand in its appointments. So far from being a two-fingers to the PRC, appointing a pope from China would be quite a coup for that state and likely to be gloated over self-righteously the same way the Nobel prize for literature was.

78

Alex 02.12.13 at 11:16 am

I always rather liked the fact that Sikhs appointed a book as their leader.

79

Nemo 02.12.13 at 12:24 pm

Actually, we all can become pope, thanks to Project Pan-Pontification. You go to this site

http://discordia.wikia.com/wiki/Pope_cards

and print out a card which begins

The bearer of this card is a genuine and authorized

POPE

and you are then a pope with full rights and privleges, including infallibility.

80

Barry 02.12.13 at 1:08 pm

Josh G: ” But they will probably try to help their public image by electing someone who is not associated with the sexual abuse scandals wracking the Church”

I doub that anybody with power is not associated, not least because those who are would not like an innocent person on the inside; he could cause far too much trouble.

81

Steve LaBonne 02.12.13 at 1:20 pm

If an inanimate object can be Pope, I suggest a Shiva linga. Checks the Asian box and is appropriate symbolism for the clergy’s principal avocation.

82

chris y 02.12.13 at 3:13 pm

I always rather liked the fact that Sikhs appointed a book as their leader.

In Graftonism, the succession of the prophets to date is from “A is for Alibi” to “V is for Vengeance”. The faithful await the coming of the foretold “Z is for ????” which will usher in the end times.

83

Herman 02.12.13 at 3:57 pm

@ keir #57
“Could an artificial intelligence be Pope?”

The question is: Could a natural intelligence?

84

burritoboy 02.12.13 at 5:41 pm

“It’s come close in this one though. One of the Medicis perhaps? Priest, Cardinal and Pope all in a day or two?”

Leo X wasn’t a priest (he was actually a Cardinal Deacon) when he became Pope. He was 0bviously already Catholic and already a Cardinal at the time of his election (indeed, he had been a Cardinal for more than twenty years by then) and had been in holy orders since the age of seven. He thus was ordained as a priest and then as Bishop of Rome on the same day.

85

Martin 02.13.13 at 4:35 am

Ambrose was an unbaptized layman when he was elected Bishop of Milan. He was baptized, ordained and consecrated in quick succession.

One of the more notable fathers of the Church, except for his rabid anti-Semitism.

86

DRR7 02.13.13 at 5:46 am

I have no sincere religious belief, and am not catholic anyways but I kind of liked Ratzinger. JPII seemed to rule the church on charisma alone, not surprising given his theatrical background, but never struck me as a man of deep thought. I’ve never read “Theology of the Body” but the consensus opinion of Catholics I know is that it’s dreadful.

I read the first part of Ratzinger’s ‘Jesus of Nazareth’ project a few years ago & was impressed with both his knowledge of work of various protestant theologians (mostly German) & the fact that he seemed very familiar with the currents of continental philosophy. Also he speaks beautiful French.

87

Skeptic 02.13.13 at 6:21 am

@ Maria 77,
Right, new pope would not be from official Catholic church in China, but rather from the underground catholic church there. There are Cardinals “in pectore” (secret) there.

88

Gene O'Grady 02.13.13 at 4:47 pm

faustusnotes, I’m pretty sure Victor Hanson is not a Catholic. If that helps. Even if he had been I doubt he’d have lasted with the Church as it is in the Central Valley.

89

annie 02.13.13 at 6:13 pm

i’ll be happy not hearing his german-accented italian anymore.

90

j_30 02.14.13 at 3:06 am

He was an anachronism from day one… out of time…. out of place. His hollow pontificating and weird reactionary ways just added to the impression of someone chronically out-of-touch. At times he managed to outright alienate as with the Regensberg insult-speech. He functioned best in darkened rooms planning elaborate cover-ups.

91

Gene O'Grady 02.14.13 at 5:05 am

C’mon, Annie, the one thing I really liked about his predecessor was that his Italian was easy for me to understand. And, unfortunately, often with appalling content.

On the other hand, the three finest male speaking voices I ever heard live were (in chronological order) Muhammed Ali, John Paul II, and Richard Burton.

92

NomadUK 02.14.13 at 9:24 am

I know nothing about Peter Turkson, who seems to be up among the favourites

Well, here you go.

93

Sasha Clarkson 02.15.13 at 8:23 pm

The Star Wars parody ‘A New Pope’

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