Patrick O’Brian is a great conservative writer

by Henry Farrell on September 8, 2024

[Commercial announcement: My and Abraham Newman’s book, Underground Empire: How America Weaponized the World Economy is still available for $2.99 on Amazon Kindle. Also, it is about to come out in paperback in the UK and US. We now return you to your scheduled programming. Also: this post was first published at Programmable Mutter].

After nuzzling up against a fishing trawler’s trolling line – a fairly obvious effort by Janan Ganesh to get outrage-clicks – I’m swallowing the bait. But I have an excuse! I’ve been planning to write this post for months anyway, and Ganesh is just serving up the occasion.

Ganesh argues that we should read highbrow books and lowbrow books, but not, under any circumstances, middle-brow ones.

It is rude to name names. But if we imagine a writer called something like Elena Murakami or Patrick O’ Le Carré, someone whose prose is neither the most expeditious nor all that deep, who doesn’t trade in incident-driven high jinks or profound digression, someone who is challenging enough, doesn’t the reader lose twice over?

So too for movies and TV. I don’t particularly recommend that you read the original article – it doesn’t have any argument beyond what I’ve already given you. But I do want to push back – to push back vigorously – against one of the meticulously calibrated sneers (the others likely deserve pushback too – but that is not my job).

Patrick O’Brian is one of the great conservative writers of the last century. I hesitate to say the great conservative writer, because I am not a conservative myself, and hence not the best judge. But I am prepared to argue that he is the writer who is most capable of bringing out the best points of conservatism in a way that non-conservatives like myself can understand and find sympathy with.

It shouldn’t be me writing this – I’ve been trying to egg on Sam Goldman (who is a conservative) to do something like this piece for years, because I know that he would do this much better. But so it goes.

The great problem in Patrick O’Brian is the problem of right authority. When you have complete authority over others, what does that do to them and what does it do to you? How do you exercise it without destroying them or becoming a monster yourself? This is a problem that standard issue liberals and lefties have great difficulty thinking about clearly, because it doesn’t fit easily with their understandings of how the world works. But authority relations riddle our society, even if we might prefer to ignore them.

O’Brian returns to this question again and again. The first chapter of the first book, Master and Commander, describes Jack Aubrey taking command of the sloop Sophie. Aubrey feels very great happiness, but also an ‘aliquid amari’: a bitterness that leavens his joy. An invisible wall now separates him from his crew and his officers:

He was no longer one of ‘us’: He was ‘they.’ Indeed, he was the immediately present incarnation of ‘them.’ In his tour of the brig, he had been surrounded with deference – a respect different in kind from that accorded to a lieutenant, different in kind from that accorded to a human being: it had surrounded him like a glass bell, quite shutting him off from the ship’s company; and on his leaving the Sophie had let out a quiet sigh of relief, the sigh he knew so well: ‘Jehovah is no longer with us.’

To be in command is to have the right to exercise absolute authority, but it is also to be isolated in a most profound sense from the human beings that one has life-and-death authority over. Aubrey cannot be friends with them in any true sense; the authority of his position must be the foundation of their relationship. The reason ‘popularity’ is so loathsome to Jack Aubrey is that it mistakes authority for friendship. A captain who wants to be loved, rather than respected, by his crew, is liable to arbitrariness and favoritism, to do the wrong thing when the right thing ought be obvious.

But of course, a great friendship of equals is at the heart of the books, which are, after all, commonly described as the “Aubrey-Maturin” novels. This friendship operates outside the ordinary relations of authority. Stephen Maturin’s nearly complete incomprehension of naval ways allows O’Brian to explain all sorts of shipboard technicalities without it obtruding too much on the narrative. But it also allows Maturin and Aubrey to have a relationship that works across the usual formalities of rank, turning an understanding of authority into a dialogue about it.

It would be a profound mistake to see Aubrey and Maturin as the representatives of abstract philosophical positions. That would not only stop the novels from being novels, but utterly undermine O’Brian’s position. I suspect that Stephen speaks for him when he says:

I speak only for myself, mind – it is my own truth alone – but man as part of a movement or crowd is indifferent to me. He is inhuman … The only feelings I have – for what they are – are for men as individuals; my loyalties, such as they may be, are to private persons alone.

Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin are individual humans with a particular relationship, and it is only because of this that their relationship can bear the argument.

But there is an argument, which emerges again and again throughout the books about right authority. Stephen usually takes the position that authority is a profoundly corrupting force. This instance – famous at least among those who read the books:

‘As for mutinies in general,’ said Stephen, ‘I am all in favour of ’em. You take men from their homes or their chosen professions, you confine them in insalubrious conditions upon a wholly inadequate diet, you subject them to the tyranny of bosun’s mates, you expose them to unimagined perils; what is more, you defraud them of their meagre food, pay and allowances — everything but this sacred rum of yours. Had I been at Spithead, I should certainly have joined the mutineers. Indeed, I am astonished at their moderation.’

‘Pray, Stephen, do not speak like this, nattering about the service; it makes me so very low. I know things are not perfect, but I cannot reform the world and run a man-of-war. In any case, be candid, and think of the Sophie — think of any happy ship.’

‘There are such things, sure; but they depend upon the whim, the digestion and the virtue of one or two men, and that is iniquitous. I am opposed to authority, that egg of misery and oppression; I am opposed to it largely for what it does to those who exercise it.’

Aubrey, being less a philosophe than a practical man, can’t properly explain what he means. But he regularly displays it in his practice. In the very earliest moments of his command he knows what to pay attention to, and what not (“he was blind to the things he was not meant to see – the piece of ham that an officious fo’c’sle cat had dragged from behind a bucket.”) Despite his absolute authority, he allows himself to be bullied by his steward, Preserved Killick. He recognizes the various little perquisites of the men and those in the society around him, the douceurs and acceptable corruptions that underpin a general satisfaction. And he is exquisitely attentive to the ‘moral advantage’ – the sense of what is owed and who it is owed to.

Most importantly, he believes that knowing one’s men, as individuals and as a group, is crucial to proper command. Some people who read O’Brian reasonably complain about the detailed description of ship’s rigging and equipment. Far fewer note the nearly equally omnipresent philosophical discussions and asides, which frequently counterpose both Aubrey and Maturin’s lively attention to the individual to Whiggish abstractions. The abominable banker Mr. Ellis is naturally a friend of Jeremy Bentham, whom he lauds as “the gentleman that wrote the Defense of Usury (it deserved to be printed in gold) [and] had invented a whipping machine.”

Bentham’s whipping machine would certainly be more efficient than the cat’o’ninetails but efficiency is not the summum bonum. When Jack has his men punished in an earlier scene, he reproves a midshipman for not being properly dressed for the occasion: “these wretched men were going to be flogged and it was their right to have it done with due ceremony – all hands gravely present, the officers with their gold-laced hats and swords, the drummer there to beat a roll.”

The books are set in that moment when the old ways are giving way to the new, and their politics favor the hunters more than the Whigs. One of the great political set pieces in the books is a description of an attempt to enclose land, on the usual grounds of efficiency, where Jack, in his capacity as country squire, is emphatically on the side on the small tenant farmers. There is a lot that is wrong in the old ways, with their amiable small corruptions, but the new ways too have their corrupt elements, and are unattractive even when they are done right.

As Aubrey describes a ship he is in temporary command of in H.M.S Surprise:

although Jack prized and admired the frigate’s efficiency and her silent discipline – she could flash out a full suit of canvas with no more than the single quiet order ‘Make sail’ and do so in three minutes forty-two seconds – he could not get used to it. The Lively was a fine example, an admirable example, of the Whiggish state of mind at its best; and Jack was a Tory. He admired her, but it was with a detached admiration, as though he were in charge of a brother-officer’s wife, an elegant, chaste, unimaginative woman, running her life on scientific principles.

This is counterposed against the Tory notion of the ship as an organic society, in which the rules are administered so as to provide a kind of general comfort, a belief in an order that is undoubtedly harsh but that still provides some comfort in its harshness. When the Articles of War, with their threats of capital punishment are read out:

Death rang through and through the Articles; and even where the words were utterly incomprehensible the death had a fine, comminatory Leviticus ring, and the crew took a grave pleasure in it all; it was what they were used to – it was what they heard the first Sunday in every month and upon all extraordinary occasions such as this. They found it comfortable to their spirits, and when the watch below was dismissed the men looked far more settled.

There is much in this that is alien – even obnoxious – to modern sensibilities. The claim that it is “what they were used to” is regularly invoked throughout the books as justification for this or that sordid practice. But there is also something that the liberals and left could stand to learn from.

If O’Brian is unfair to Bentham – and he certainly is – he is not entirely unfair. And we are all (for values of ‘we’ that encompass most people who I think read this kind of newsletter), Bentham’s children to some greater or lesser degree. We are often more comfortable dealing with abstractions – introducing measures to help the poor or the working class; improving general ‘prosperity’ – than in talking to, or engaging with the sweating, breathing, imperfect and complicated people whom we affect to help. Even the most supple forms of democratic authority work through abstractions, formalities and complications, rather than face to face relationships. There isn’t an organic relationship between those who rule or at least influence rule, and those who are ruled. We do not like to think of ourselves as exerting authority, but we most certainly are, through collectively and abstractly legitimated forms of coercion.

Conservatism in its attractive form discovers the troubles of this means of organizing society. I think of Chris Arnade, who makes walking into a form of political discovery, spending days and weeks on foot, going through ordinary neighborhoods and seeing and talking to the people there. The implicit, and sometimes explicit reproach to liberals and the professional left is that we don’t much have these kinds of contacts, except for those of us who do it in a professional capacity. And for many of us (myself included) he’s right. The Whiggish mode of organizing society tends towards a radical disconnection.

And that is the burden of O’Brian’s books. He lays out a conservative alternative – an understanding of authority that ought properly be organic, based on a recognition of relations of authority and power that liberals might prefer to pretend do not exist. A good captain – a good exerciser of authority – ought accept their role and their isolation both, without losing all human connection. They should be ‘taut,’ perhaps sometimes even a ‘right hard horse,’ but they should never be a tyrant. O’Brian’s claim – again voiced through Maturin – is that this is very unlikely, but not impossible.

there are many good or at least amiable midshipmen, there are fewer good lieutenants, still fewer good captains, and almost no good admirals. A possible explanation may be this: in addition to professional competence, cheerful resignation, an excellent liver, natural authority and a hundred other virtues, there must be the far rarer quality of resisting the effects, the dehumanising effects, of the exercise of authority. Authority is a solvent of humanity: look at any husband, any father of a family, and note the absorption of the person by the persona, the individual by the role. Then multiply the family, and the authority, by some hundreds and see the effect upon a sea-captain, to say nothing of an absolute monarch. Surely man in general is born to be oppressed or solitary, if he is to be fully human; unless it so happens that he is immune to the poison. In the nature of the service this immunity cannot be detected until late: but it certainly exists. How otherwise are we to account for the rare, but fully human and therefore efficient admirals we see …

[‘Efficient’ in the last sentence presumably meaning not Whiggishness, but the capacity to get what needs to get done, done.]

This is the great theme of the O’Brian books as I read them, and their great contribution too. Condemning them as middlebrow is silly nonsense. They have their faults, as Dickens does – frequent longueurs; sometimes grotesque contrivances of plot. But so too they have their greatness, and the larger part of that greatness comes from their statement of a particular view of human beings, and their perpetual return to the vexed problem of right authority. We exercise authority over each other; sometimes verging on the absolute. How can we do it well, without becoming monstrous?

From the last passage cited, it is notable that O’Brian doesn’t pull the frequent conservative trick of justifying authority in society at large on the basis of the kinds of authority that are exercised within the patriarchal family. Both, for him, are likely to be greatly problematic, because they dissolve the individual into their role. And there are many ways in which that relationship may turn disastrous. The various ships described in his books, with their various captains and officers, are so many miniature societies, so many exercises of authority. We can discern the many different ways in which authority goes wrong, and the occasional ways in which it can go right.

I don’t agree with O’Brian’s philosophy – but I do think that there is a great deal that liberals and the left can and should learn from his attention to this question. Some come by this sensibility naturally: leftists like Ursula Le Guin and Randall Jarrell; Dickensian liberals like Peter Ackroyd. Those, like me, who abstract for their livelihood are not likely to happen upon it in the course of their profession. They ought read O’Brian and writers like him, and what happier way can there be to learn the lessons they ought learn? Patrick O’Brian is a great and a glorious writer. The various examples above are drawn from the first three books, because that’s where I am in my current re-read (or more accurately, re-listen: I recommend the Patrick Tull audiobooks), but there is far more, not just argument, but wonder at the world and the ways of human beings. Just yesterday, I laughed out loud when Maturin described lime juice that had been adulterated as “sophisticated.” What joy in language, what delight!

{ 26 comments… read them below or add one }

1

Chris Bertram 09.08.24 at 1:23 pm

I reacted to the same column by suggesting at Bluesky that the FT could take itself up to another level just by sacking Ganesh whose trademark combination of snobbery and narcissism grates every time. Other than that, great piece Henry!

2

J, not that one 09.08.24 at 2:35 pm

This is a fine piece but I would have enjoyed it more without the implications at the beginning that simply noticing certain aspects of human life makes one a conservative in political terms.

There are people who are able to act without authority impinging in their relations with others (at least their public relations) and who like it that way. In 1789 probably most of them (if they were well off gentlemen) were political liberals. I don’t see how or why those lines could be in the same place today.

There’s probably some point in following out whether it’s actually true in some sense and to some degree (it’s probably explanatory for some writers and politicians) but it seems somewhat pernicious to suggest that anyone who voted for a left wing party must be incapable of grasping what “authority” is, or that anyone who finds that aspect of say Shakespeare is likely to vote for Trump or whoever the Republican of the day happens to be at that time.

3

stevem johnson 09.08.24 at 3:08 pm

There is a great deal of work being done in the OP by phrases like “Whiggish abstractions,” and “Whiggish state of mind.” I am irresistibly reminded of E.H. Carr’s What Is History? with its remarks on Herbert Butterfield’s Whig interpretation of historians that failed to actually discuss many Whig historians.

I tried to read an O’Brian novel once and failed. Having read C.S. Forester’s Hornblower series (owning all of it so far as I know,) I found it unreadable.

Maturin for one struck me as Darwin on the Beagle and didn’t seem…quite plausible? Obviously my reading in this light may be contested as a misreading that prevented going on with the series.

4

NomadUK 09.08.24 at 4:19 pm

Well, £5.99, but okay, why not?

5

LFC 09.08.24 at 5:12 pm

A warship (perhaps esp. during the early 19th century and/or late 18th cent.) is a setting in which “an organic relationship” between commander and crew is not that hard to portray as attractive. A naval vessel at sea is a self-enclosed and isolated environment, and its inhabitants, esp. at the time in which O’Brian’s novels are set, are fairly homogeneous. When transferred or applied to the more complicated setting of an entire society, Aubrey’s approach is more problematic, one might suggest (though the OP’s point that liberals and leftists could learn something from it would still stand).

6

Ebenezer Scrooge 09.08.24 at 5:36 pm

All true in the OP, but with two great reservations:
1. O’Brien cannot quite bring himself to believe that the lower classes are fully human. His exemplar–Barrett Bonden–has all the qualities of the ideal dog: loyal, tough, intelligent enough, unquestioning.
2. O’Brien’s artistic failure occurred in his later novels, as Captain Aubrey became a Mary Sue, and Maturin a wittier and lesser clone of Aubrey.

7

wetzel-rhymes-with 09.08.24 at 11:04 pm

Bentham’s whipping machine would certainly be more efficient than the cat’o’ninetails but efficiency is not the summum bonum. When Jack has his men punished in an earlier scene, he reproves a midshipman for not being properly dressed for the occasion: “these wretched men were going to be flogged and it was their right to have it done with due ceremony – all hands gravely present, the officers with their gold-laced hats and swords, the drummer there to beat a roll.”

A friend related a similar anecdote from his post-doc at the NIH in a laboratory which employed hamsters as test subjects. Two graduate students were were caught by the PI humming the Looney Tunes Funeral March during the “sacrifice” of hamsters who’d served out their experimental purpose. The Principal Investigator became very angry and berated the students harshly on observing proper decorum.

I think both the sacrifice of hamsters at the NIH and the “flogging ceremony” on the Sophie are sacrificial rituals where the PI and Jack are acting the role of Priest or Sacred King, establishing authority and “decorum” through the violence the rituals inflict on the animals in the case of the laboratory, or the lower classes in the case of early 19th century British society. I think the conservative disposition towards authority is one to exercise proper decorum in the sacrificial rituals because to be conservative is to have a kind of blindness for “the violence inherent in the system”. The violence becomes “ready-to-hand” in the sense of Heidegger like the carpenter’s hammer becomes a part of their body. Authority is “natural” to the conservative disposition, and so captain and crew accept flogging as the way it has always been done. It’s natural to dress up in their best uniforms because it’s from the flogging the difference in degree their uniforms represent was derived.

On the other hand, for Stephen, the rituals on the ship are “present-at-hand”, and so Stephen can’t help but see the violence. I think René Girard’s understanding sacrificial ritual might help. The flogging instructs the crew to an unconscious understanding of Jack’s authority, but for Stephen, who has a liberal disposition, it isn’t unconscious. ‘Pray, Stephen, do not speak like this, nattering about the service; it makes me so very low’

8

oldster 09.09.24 at 12:30 am

“Just yesterday, I laughed out loud when Maturin described lime juice that had been adulterated as “sophisticated.” What joy in language, what delight!”

The employment of this sense of “sophisticated” delights our ears, because it has fallen into desuetude. But it was one of the standard senses at the time — not a poetical use, not an imaginative or clever use, and to Maturin’s contemporaries it would not have been a source of surprise or delight. Check the OED — they list it as the earliest English meaning, and the only one available until the 1800s.
Still, there is joy and delight in learning about the history of our language.

9

engels 09.09.24 at 12:23 pm

What’s the evidence that Ganesh has ever read a “highbrow book”?

10

Trader Joe 09.09.24 at 4:00 pm

Well done and I’d largely agree with every word (though that adds little value).

I’ve always believed the opus of O”Brian’s work is really to take a microcosm (the ship as substitute for society), tweak a variable or two and contemplate what it does to the various constituents and then have the constituents themself comment or act upon these outcomes.

In a storm, at a port, facing the enemy, spying behind enemy lines, while ship-wrecked etc. The “Upper class” (i.e. Aubrey and other senior officers) are expected to exhibit certain behaviors but may due to circumstance, exhibit others. Equally the “lower class” before the mast are expected to respond consistently to what is expected and inconsistently to that which is not expected. These actions then further catalyze subsequent reactions and motivate the story.

If it sounds a bit like tossing chemicals into a crucible (holding only Aubrey and Maturin semi-constant) to see how they react to heat, cold, pressure etc. its not far from the mark with the anlaysis then done in philosophic/psychoanaltic terms rather than chemical.

I could go on for hours on this topic (I dearly love the stories), Maturin I actually believe is the more interesting because while a Captain has certain prescribed behaviors that he can then execute at his own judgement – there is no set way a doctor is meant to behave so he has far more latitude for his actions outside of the specifics of sawing bones and stanching blood. The fact he chooses to be a spy, a biologist and a laudanum user (among other things) with his free-time makes for a rather unpredictable and unexpected character.

11

engels 09.09.24 at 5:58 pm

Ganesh is a pseudo-intellectual if ever there was one but he does deserve credit for reviving the literary genre of flyting.

12

J, not that one 09.09.24 at 6:44 pm

“O ’Brien cannot quite bring himself to believe that the lower classes are fully human”

He doesn’t seem to believe that the people who keep a neater ship than his (as in the OP) are human, either. It can’t be that they prefer it that way for any reason he could recognize: it must be that they’re inhumanly “scientific” and sexless, lacking any human types of preferences at all.

13

someone who remembers tom clancy was a video game guy even when he was alive 09.09.24 at 7:05 pm

terrific analysis. and, i would add, that there has always been an audience for conservative artwork, both low-, middle- and high-brow, that extends beyond conservatives. everybody loved tom clancy, not just reaganites, and The Hunt For Red October is a tremendous piece of conservative art – we grope into the dangerous darkness, annihilation is on the line, our superior military and intelligence procedures could handle it if we but knew what we faced, and in the end the true conflict was between the cold, unfeeling communist hierarchy and a true human emotion. it’s unequivocally great, and you end up thinking a lot about various cold war attitudes, institutions and technologies. but around 1996 it was determined by american conservative leaders (gingrich, limbaugh, the southern baptist convention) that reading fiction was gay and writing actual books was double-gay, so from then on anyone that wasn’t already established never had a chance. clancy himself just sold his name to a team of writers and they’re still hiding behind it. the typical conservative book from then on, in america, was a hardback with someone with their arms folded on the cover, a large-print yet essentially unreadable rambling morass of how liberals, if you think about it, are the real communist racists, intended to be handed out for free at churches and conventions to get on the nyt bestseller list.

this is why on some level i kinda appreciate the daily caller guys putting out shitty movies; making movies is hard and a lot of them end up shitty, but at least they’re participating in the production of art. maybe someday they’ll make a good movie and if they do, good for them. ben shapiro’s thrillers are true unreadable garbage, “but at least it’s an ethos, dude”. maybe he’ll write a good one someday! (he won’t but you get the idea.)

14

c1ue 09.10.24 at 1:38 am

The problem with this “damning with faint praise” of O’Brian as a “conservative writer” is the failure to recognize that a warship has a purpose – and it is not the development of each sailor, soldier or officer as a human being or a ship as a model microcosm of society.
This lack of recognition underpins every part of the review – ranging from the over-focus on what O’Brian’s “social” relationships are with the rest of the crew and fellow officers.
The practices employed by O’Brian are not some expression of conservative thought – they are methods to extract the best performance, in Aubrey’s view, of the crew and the ship he commands. This is the only performance metric that matters.
If you desire understanding of conservative thought, there are a plethora of sources ranging from the religious to the political to the philosophical. Reading, for example, Disraeli’s novels and political speeches would be a much better source of information on conservative philosophy.
It also should be noted that Whigs in the O’Brian novel series era were not liberals in the French Revolution sense – they were aristocrats fighting Royal authority. Or in other words: not populists seeking the creation and enforcement of human rights for the regular people but lords seeking protection of their own ancestral privileges against the encroachment of royal and sovereign authority.
On the other side of the Atlantic, the Founding Fathers were certainly not uniformly “liberal” in the modern sense. Again, the Declaration of Independence was much less about the rights of regular people as opposed to the privileges of the American colonist elite against Royal authority.
Understanding and delineating the gray zone difference between boundaries and rights vs. “liberty” – that is what conservatism is about.

15

Doug M. 09.10.24 at 10:58 am

As a couple of commenters have noted, O’Brian doesn’t give the lower ranks a lot of agency. Awkward Davies is not officer material! In fact, he needs a firm hand to keep him from folly and violence. But he’s very useful in a fight.

But the books are far from simply accepting this class structure. Most obviously, there’s Maturin’s constant critique. This is where the otherwise good movie adaptation falls down IMO: it makes Stephen a weak idealist, useful only for doctoring and the occasional clever idea, and literally gives Jack the final word. The tension between Jack’s world-view and Stephen’s is one of the engines of the series. And while Jack’s is a better fit with the world he lives in — it’s no accident that Stephen is a failed revolutionary — Stephen’s ideology is never treated as inferior or foolish. His critiques are treated as serious and valid, even if not much is ever going to come of them.

Additionally, large parts of the books are set on shore — nearly all of the second book, in particular — and O’Brian’s views get significantly more nuanced here. Again, it’s no accident that Jack, so very competent afloat, consistently turns into a “great booby” who cannot be trusted with money or important decisions the moment he sets foot on land.

Doug M.

16

J, not that one 09.10.24 at 1:14 pm

I’d class these books less as expressions of a conservative political philosophy and more of a conservative attitude. Aubrey and Maturin are both men without masters (the latter provisionally, the former within certain very well reinforced boundaries). The book tells us what irritates each of them, but possibly doesn’t go far in telling us whether either of them knows enough to set up an adequate society, or to maintain the principles they personally each profess.

The reader might surmise that Britannia ruled the waves because of men like Aubrey, but most conservative British novelists I’m aware of were less interested in success and more in character.

17

Ebenezer Scrooge 09.10.24 at 3:36 pm

c1ue@14: You’re right about the Whigs, but the Maturin of the earlier books in the series was not a Whig. He still had the ideals of the French Revolution, but hated their corruption under Napoleon. (In this, he resembles the lefty anti-communists: Orwell, Djilas, and the like.)
As far as the attitudes of the American Founders, they were very mixed. Some were Whiggish aristos: Washington, Hamilton. Some were aristos in favor of democracy and human rights (Jefferson, in the appropriate mood). Some of them (shudder!) were plebeians who aspired to democratic leadership and sometimes achieved it. William Findley, I think, is the best example. Hogeland’s book, “The Hamilton Scheme”, handles this history pretty well, although he does not give Findley pride of place.

18

steven t johnson 09.10.24 at 5:13 pm

Ebenezer Scrooge@17 is breathtaking in citing Jefferson “in an appropriate mood…” Whiggery in reference to the American Revolution brings up John Wilkes, Rockingham and his man (then) Edmund Burke. And citing the bastard Hamilton as an aristo? Not sure if being illegitimate is an electoral advantage today, but in the eighteenth century?
I couldn’t read enough O’Brian to tell if his invocation of Whiggery was more Butterfield than good historical fiction (much less fact.)

Viewing Washington and Hamilton as national military rather than aristo seems worthy of consideration. John Adams was far more typical of Whigs (the favored name of the independentistas) but he was no aristo either. Hamilton’s Report on Manufactures was decidedly non-aristocratic in its long run orientation, because, no, commercial society (as it was then called as I understand it) was not aristocratic society. Aristocratic society was France, and Austria, and Spain, and assorted princes in Italy and Germany, no?

It seems necessary to me to remember the events Hogeland covers but his interpretive framework is not to be trusted in my judgment. His idiosyncratic vision of ideal democracy is his own, but it’s presumption to somehow be relevant to effective criticism of actually existing democracy is questionable.

19

John Q 09.12.24 at 8:56 pm

The scene where Jack defeats the enclosure is indeed memorable, as is the aftermath when Bonden is defeated by a boxer backed by Jack’s enemies who wins by the dirty trick of seizing Bonden’s pigtail (which he had refused advice to shave). Whiggery wins in the end.

20

TF79 09.13.24 at 12:22 am

Having not read O’Brian in a good quarter century, this discussion is a great memory jogger. Makes me want to pick up the books, or at least put some cello music on.

21

James 09.13.24 at 6:05 am

Thanks for this. I spent an hour on Substack last night and this piece was far superior to anything I read there.

And would it be a stretch to suggest Gene Wolfe as a candidate for greatest conservative writer of the last century?

22

Henry Farrell 09.13.24 at 1:08 pm

not on his conservatism, but I wrote a different piece a couple of weeks ago on Gene Wolfe and Large Language Models – https://www.programmablemutter.com/p/even-if-ai-makes-art-it-may-be-bad

23

JakeB 09.14.24 at 4:54 am

A very nice analysis Henry.

For me, one of the other great things about the O’Brian books is that, taken as a whole, they are one of the greatest descriptions of a long-term male friendship ever written.

24

David 09.14.24 at 11:44 am

I can’t help reading and thinking about, of all things, universities. We have learned a lot in the past six months about how universities leaders view most of their students and faculty. Universities are fundamentally conservative institutions, in the sense described here, even if not exactly as disciplined or authoritarian as frigates. But we seemed to hope that our leaders were humble about the authority vested in them, and reluctant to bring out the cat o nine tails. Instead it turned out they were eager to reach for the whipping machine.

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JakeB 09.14.24 at 4:53 pm

That piece on LLMs is also really good. I’m ashamed to say as a former classics major that I can’t remember if I thought of Homer’s construction with phrase-long building blocks the first time I read Book of the New Sun but I certainly thought of it this time in your essay. I am too lazy to try to see if someone has tried using the Iliad or the Odyssey or some other traditional epic to see what an LLM produces but I imagine twice as repetitive and with none of the power of one of the originals.

The other thing your essay made me think of was the issue and sometimes difficulty of having sufficient burn-in in Bayesian models to make sure the model has had enough time to jump out of its local maxima and explore a sufficiently large bit of space to come reasonably close to a true optimum, and how the burn-in time needs can be both difficult to predict and of course are subject to random themselves. A kind of analogy for there needing to be enough opportunity for errors to occur to allow progress.

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steven t johnson 09.15.24 at 3:27 pm

JakeB@25 may be OT in citing LLM writing epic poetry using The Iliad and/or The Odyssey as a training base, but it’s a provocative thought in itself. It first provoked in me the question, which translation? Then, it provoked the question, what if you trained the LLM in the original Greek and then asked it to translate into English? (LLM trained also in contemporary texts, to be sure.) Most of us have never read the Iliad or the Odyssey, but merely translations. (The death of the author thesis, which privileges the text, implies I think that each translation is its own unique work. This may seem far-fetched or at least simplistic, but then, that gut feeling is rather more of an objection to the death of the author thesis, no?)

So far as I can tell, LLM models cannot be effective AI for operating machinery, because they do not have bodies or senses and therefore cannot learn the world. Hence the notorious bouts of hallucination occasionally encountered?

LLMs may code themselves in the training process, but they can’t reprogram themselves. An LLM trained in ancient Greek and contemporary English cannot decide to write even a short epic (epyllion?) about the sack of Troy or about Paris’/Alexander’s time in Sparta or about Achilles disguised as a girl.

As to the question, can they do art? If “art” is conceived as the communication of meaning, which necessarily includes feeling, not being people, no LLM can do “art.”
Art as decoration? Perhaps, but is that widely accepted as a legitimate meaning of “art?”
It seems to me a lot of art criticism is about rating the Good Stuff and is as endless as philosophizing about the Good.

It does seem to me that LLMs may take machine translation to unimagined new levels. I am curious about how this will affect nationalism? What will that look like when a language no longer “needs” an army and a currency to survive, merely an app on your computer or phone? Shame I won’t live to see that.

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