Money talks and the social construction of reality, walks

by Daniel on June 6, 2008

Via Ken MacLeod, the latest from Donald MacKenzie, financial sociologist to the stars, on the current kerfuffle[1] and on the social nature of market liquidity.

One of the reasons why I tend to be receptive to what is apparently called “the pomo crowd” by people who clearly don’t know what they’re talking about, is that every working day of my life I sit down and look at a screen which is full of numbers which are obviously objective facts, but which are equally obviously socially constructed. The statement that “an asset is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay for it” is both a tautology and an extremely misleading theory.

One of the reasons why I’ve never had very much time for the Dawkinses, Dennetts and Martin Gardners[2] of this world and their hostility to any critical analysis of the way in which “facts” are made is that it actually has real world consequences for me and my life. The whole debate over fair value accounting is one about the epistemological status of market prices, and as with the science studies wars, it’s one in which an awful lot of the running has been made by a totally dogmatic insistence that certain kinds of observation have to be treated as fundamental, and while sometimes particular observations can be called into question, the entire process by which observations are generated is totally out of bounds. Really passionate advocates of fair value accounting (also the curious subculture of index fund fandom, but that’s perhaps a subject for another day) also share with the “anti-pomo” territory a curious compulsion to get really angry and call people names for disagreeing with them about methodology.

I’ve always thought it’s a real shame that Bruno Latour and the rest of the science studies crowd decided concentrate on natural sciences rather than having a really good look at the worlds of business, finance and economics. There’s so much material in things like the fair value accounting debate that could really benefit from a systematic study. (An old colleague of mine had a parallel theory that legal and political philosophers spent far too much time on constitutional law and far too little on tax; an awful lot of fundamental legal principles get their first serious trials in tax cases, because tax is one of the few areas of the law where people will spend serious time and effort on trying to evade the spirit of the law while remaining within the letter; tax cases also very frequently throw up distinctions which sharpen one’s intuitions about fairness and legitimacy, particularly in international contexts. Tax is also one of the few areas where retrospective legislation is more or less par for the course).

There’s an old proverb which one often hears quoted in the stock market to the effect that “money talks and bullshit walks”. I can’t help but think that there’s potentially an excellent theory of sociology of knowledge somewhere in there, waiting for some future theorist to unpack it.

[1] S&Ls was a crisis, causing as it did the bankruptcy of a material proportion of the banking system of the USA. Asia/Russia 1998 was clearly a crisis as major countries (one of them a nuclear power) defaulted on their external obligations. Some people losing some money in the securities market is not a crisis per se, particularly not if it is contained by prompt central bank action. Even a fall in house prices, while obviously bloody unpleasant for the people who are geared up on overvalued houses, is not really a crisis in the sense of something requiring immediate and extreme action. I therefore refer to “the credit kerfuffle” in a spirit of mature calmness. I do not have my head up my ass and my name is not Pollyanna, no really.

[2] Not really true; I used to be a big fan of Dennett, a lifetime ago, and I still enjoy Martin Gardner very much when he’s not writing about sociology of science. One of the things that always strikes me, is how many of the pop science world’s doughtiest defenders of science do so from the point of view of a sort of hero-worship rather than understanding from the inside – Gardner in this interview claims that “beyond calculus I’m lost” and this is not at all untypical. There must be something psychological at work here – obviously Gardner is intelligent enough to learn mathematics beyond undergraduate level, and he loves it, so why not? In general, science isn’t all that difficult to learn about properly if you have the time and inclination. There are, of course, people like Sokal and Peter Medawar who reach the same conclusions on the basis of an actual understanding of physical science, but the infantry of the Science Wars seems to me to be very heavy indeed on science “fans”.

[3] Confidential to KME: bite me.

{ 50 comments }

1

Richard J 06.06.08 at 11:11 am

Restropective court judgements are very common in tax – retrospective legislation is very rare, in my experience.

2

matt 06.06.08 at 1:22 pm

I’ll second this post, especially the bit about the unfortunate over-emphasis of constitutional law by many people in political philosophy. When in law school I certainly found more interesting philosophical issues in corporations and international finance than in constitutional law. (I didn’t take tax so can’t comment on that.) Some of Dennett’s early work was very good- I still think his work on free will in _Elbow Room_ is the best there is on the subject- but the annoyance to insight ration has been too high for me in anything after _Consciousness Explained_.

3

HH 06.06.08 at 2:09 pm

I am trying hard to find a subject in this post, but it appears to be largely a footnoted drive-by spraying of criticisms at familiar adversaries.

Regarding crisis status for the current credit market turmoil, Bernanke managed to avoid a domino collapse of Wall Street only by taking extreme, if not desperate, measures to lend vast amounts of Federal cash against toxic waste assets.

We are all ignorant of the magnitude of the unrecognized losses in the over-leveraged and under-capitalized financial sector, but these losses cannot be hidden forever. Thus, it is too soon to say that there is no crisis.

The relevant branch of social science for addressing current and future kerfluffles of this kind is trust engineering. The mechanisms of trust synthesis and assurance are badly underdeveloped, largely because interested parties favor “flexibility” in this domain.

The F.W. Taylor of scientific management of trust has not yet arrived. Until he does, we will blame our losses on everything but the fundamental cause: the periodic breach of trust by individuals and institutions in the financial marketplace.

4

"Q" the Enchanter 06.06.08 at 2:17 pm

There’s some interesting stuff here, but I think the reference to Dawkins, et al., is kind of inapposite.[1] For one thing, their “philosophical” project (such as it is) doesn’t consist in doing a wide-ranging survey of epistemology; rather, theirs is an attempt to counter a particular kind of popular epistemological nonsense. None of them would deny that there are facts that are both objective and socially constructed. Indeed, Dennett’s most recent book is about the phenomenon of religion as a natural, socially constructed fact.

[1] Not to say there aren’t other reasons one might not “have very much time”[2] for these authors.[3]

[2] Within a certain range of topics, or during a certain period of time in one’s own intellectual development.

[3] As you suggest, e.g., the spell of the Ideal, Objective Scientist could stand to be broken.

5

lw 06.06.08 at 2:33 pm

Bob Park’s _Voodoo Science_ is a good book about how bad science is done and especially publicized, written by a working physicist. Epistemology stops at reproducibility in that book, I think.

6

ajay 06.06.08 at 4:38 pm

There’s some interesting stuff here, but I think the reference to Dawkins, et al., is kind of inapposite.[1] For one thing, their “philosophical” project (such as it is) doesn’t consist in doing a wide-ranging survey of epistemology; rather, theirs is an attempt to counter a particular kind of popular epistemological nonsense.

The problem is that a lot of the people doing “critical analysis of the way facts are made” are not disinterested sociologists of science but are, instead, global-warming denialists, supply-side economists, nuclear lobbyists, coal lobbyists, tobacco lobbyists, creationists and other fruitbats, and so scientists tend to get instinctively defensive about the purity of fact in a way that isn’t perhaps completely justified.

(Ironic. Nowhere is the – entirely true – sociology of science point that facts are not arrived at in an atmosphere of glacial disinterestedness by vast-brained philosopher priests, but are the result of arguments between ordinary, emotional people with axes to grind and careers to further, better made than in the field of the sociology of science itself.)

7

Daniel 06.06.08 at 4:55 pm

but are, instead, global-warming denialists, supply-side economists, nuclear lobbyists, coal lobbyists, tobacco lobbyists, creationists and other fruitbats, and so scientists tend to get instinctively defensive about the purity of fact in a way that isn’t perhaps completely justified.

But where’s the big book about tobacco lobbyist and global warning deniers? Chris Mooney wrote a good one, but it was niche stuff. Instead, we get another retread of “Counterknowledge”, “How Mumbo-Jumbo Conquered the World”, and a dozen more books having a go at the bloody god squad. I don’t think that this analysis holds water; I think that the reason so many “science fans” in the philosophy department and the features section spend so much of their time fighting culture wars is that they’re culture warriors.

8

Laleh 06.06.08 at 5:17 pm

Re: Latour and his focus on natural sciences, try the wonderful _The Politics of Large Numbers:
A History of Statistical Reasoning_ by
Alain Desrosières. Not exactly about pure maths (it is about statistics), but still. It is published by Harvard UP and has a description at

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/DESPOL.html

or at Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Politics-Large-Numbers-Statistical-Reasoning/dp/0674689321

It is a wonderful book… And not sure, but Desrosières could be a Latourian.

9

Daniel 06.06.08 at 5:23 pm

I’ve got that book but never cracked the spine – I’ll give it a look over the weekend.

10

HH 06.06.08 at 5:29 pm

Is repeatability and predictability in question here? Do hydrogen atoms behave differently from day to day? If we can no longer distinguish between science and what came before, then we have truly lost our way.

11

Noumenon 06.06.08 at 5:30 pm

also the curious subculture of index fund fandom, but that’s perhaps a subject for another day

Can you post about it on your blog so I won’t accidentally miss it? I thought all people who aren’t Warren Buffett are supposed to be index fund fans.

12

Brian 06.06.08 at 5:59 pm

I’d like to see the index fund post too. I’ve seen very little that’s made me think that low-info investors (like me!) shouldn’t be prioritizing index funds. But perhaps I’ve been looking in the wrong places; I am low-info after all…

13

F 06.06.08 at 6:06 pm

The problem is that a lot of the people doing “critical analysis of the way facts are made” are not disinterested sociologists of science but are, instead, global-warming denialists, supply-side economists, nuclear lobbyists, coal lobbyists, tobacco lobbyists, creationists and other fruitbats, and so scientists tend to get instinctively defensive about the purity of fact in a way that isn’t perhaps completely justified.

Indeed. I recently sat next to a man on a flight recently. He was an employee of the Discovery Institute and in between writing long diatribes defending Expelled he was intently reading Voodoo Science and marking it with a highlighter.

14

F 06.06.08 at 6:21 pm

Is repeatability and predictability in question here?

Well, quantum mechanics through a big wrench into the whole repeatability/predictability, but a decent short answer would be that hydrogen atoms act unpredictably in a well-defined way.

15

"Q" the Enchanter 06.06.08 at 7:50 pm

“But where’s the big book about tobacco lobbyist and global warning deniers?”

I think these cases differ from the case of religion in a number of ways. Here’s one. No one worth talking to believe that tobacco doesn’t cause cancer or that anthropogenic climate change is a real. More importantly, no one worth talking to believe that such beliefs are worthy of “respect.” But in the case of religion, many people worth talking to persist in believing false religious beliefs, and even more believe that such beliefs are inherently worthy of “respect.”

Of course we should be hostile to any opportunistic and overbroad appeal to the “socially constructed” nature of facts. But only one of the three above-mentioned phenomena routinely get a free-pass from those who know better. Hence the extra doses of attention and hostility it gets from these writers.

16

"Q" the Enchanter 06.06.08 at 7:52 pm

Er,

“No one worth talking to believe…”

should be

“No one worth talking to believes…”

And:

“…from those who know better.”

should be

“…from those who should know better.”

Sorry.

17

John Emerson 06.06.08 at 11:50 pm

Foucault directed his “science studies” toward what he called the weaker sciences (or something like that) — e.g., criminology or sexology. Discourses that mimic science and claim the authority of science, but whose scientific claims are really pretty weak.

There’s certainly an abundance of critiques of economics for economists to ignore, dismiss, and misrepresent. Fortunately for them, they aren’t required to give the critiques individual attention, but can just dismiss them en bloc.

And yes, I think that economics is more like sexology than like physics. But maybe I’m wrong.

NOTE: Gee. Dennett is willing to say that religion is socially constructed. I never would have guessed such a thing.

18

seth edenbaum 06.07.08 at 2:18 am

Neither Dawkins nor Dennett as far as I know have ever tried to answer questions concerning the purpose of religion. Arguing with the faithful is arguing with people over self-reported data: it’s pointless. Of course it would be good to interrogate Dawkins et al. the same way; it’s not only the faithful who take issue with D’s Fundamentalism. That’s where the science studies crowd comes in. I just discovered Latour a few months ago.

Most people, educated or not function in knee-jerk reaction to history. Determinism rules most aspects of life if not more. Little acts of discovery occur and then get shrouded in pomp and circumstance, and things go awry. A set of allegories and analogies is built around one set of facts and they seem to function for a while and then they’re shown as what they are. The discovery of antibiotics becomes the ideology of antibiotics becomes over-prescription. Affirmative action is a still somewhat popular methodology, but it’s always been problematic. And there will be a point when the reaction against it is strong enough that the policy will end. But that’s not the same thing as saying it was unnecessary. The same holds true for protectionism. A necessity can become an indulgence. But if the people who say it was indulgence all along think they’ve won the day 50 years later, they’re wrong. This is what’s happening in the fight over judicial review. There’s no right answer. There’s no “truth”.

I was talking to a friend of mine about his son, whom he coddles, reinforcing the kid’s insecurity. He told me he let him stay home from school today, missing a class trip the beach[!], because the kid said he was too stressed by the need to socialize. That annoyed me and it wasn’t until five minutes later that he corrected himself saying it was his wife who led his son stay home, and that he had disagreed. “Well, that changes everything” I said. His wife does the opposite of coddling. She’s fully capable of humiliating the kid in public. If she says it’s okay that’s a whole different issue, especially since he protested. There’s no right answer. The kid has to learn on his own. He can be helped but not taught. Reversing the good cop, bad cop roles even without intending to, at least keeps the kid thinking. The kid should have gone but it’s something.

Science bores me. I appreciate its practical power but as philosophy it’s thin stuff. It’s either the philosophy of planes trains and automobiles, or it’s pure Platonism. I’ll take the medicine (maybe) but not the values.

19

nnyhav 06.07.08 at 3:02 am

dsquared, tardy but effusive thanks for your original pointer to Mackenzie. The article you reference, “An Equation and its Worlds: Bricolage, Exemplars, Disunity and Performativity in Financial Economics” no longer resides among his online pub list or WPs, but is available here [pdf].

20

Seth Finkelstein 06.07.08 at 5:30 am

There’s two parallel complaints here which are notable:

“I’ve always thought it’s a real shame that Bruno Latour and the rest of the science studies crowd decided concentrate on natural sciences rather than having a really good look at the worlds of business, finance and economics.”

That’s the social construction of academic prominence. That is, if you say business finance and economics are socially constructed, you’re a really dangerous radical rabble-rouser. If you say mathematics and physics and chemistry are socially constructed, you’re only going to shock the bourgeoise, the business finances and economics interests won’t care.

So, if you’re socially constructing a career as an humanities academic, generating controversy against academics in other departments (science) in a way that pleases your department (humanities) and asserts your department’s primacy, is the way to go. It’s “Two Cultures” war.

On the other side, it shouldn’t be denied that there’s a certain amount of culture-war support for kicking “pomos”. I think Sokal has even discussed this in various places. It’s a case where a science academic tells humanities academics that they are blithering nonsense in a certain area, which resonates with the culture-war position of “[liberal] humanities academics are nonsense”. But assuming that the criticisms of the specific nonsense are valid, it’s difficult to thread one’s way through the competing politics.

21

HH 06.07.08 at 1:35 pm

“Science bores me.”

How about Wolfram’s “A New Kind of Science?” Is that boring?

22

JP Stormcrow 06.07.08 at 2:50 pm

How about Wolfram’s “A New Kind of Science?” Is that boring?

It’s a new kind of boring.

Providing an opportunity to link to Cosma Shalizi’s “A Rare Blend of Monster Raving Egomania and Utter Batshit Insanity”

23

Righteous Bubba 06.07.08 at 3:05 pm

Providing an opportunity to link

Error 403

24

JP Stormcrow 06.07.08 at 3:09 pm

Error 403

Hmmm, working for me.
Maybe try a subset of the link and drill down from there.
http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/wolfram/

25

Ken C. 06.07.08 at 6:20 pm

“Science bores me”

Yeah, me too. Also boring: books, Australia, and goats. Man, goats are tedious.

26

Matt Weiner 06.07.08 at 6:49 pm

It’s 403 all the way down at the moment, but here’s a Google cache.

27

Marcus Pivato 06.07.08 at 7:20 pm

Daniel: I’ve always thought it’s a real shame that Bruno Latour and the rest of the science studies crowd decided concentrate on natural sciences rather than having a really good look at the worlds of business, finance and economics.

You’re probably already aware of it, but in case not, you might be interested in the work of Philip Mirowski, who seems to be very much into `pomo critiques’ of economics. See

More Heat than Light: Economics as Social Physics, Physics as Nature’s Economics.

and
Machine Dreams: Economics Becomes a Cyborg Science .

I haven’t actually read these books, so I might be way off base here. My knowledge of them is based on another interesting recent book on the philosophy of economics (which I have read) called
Economic Theory and Cognitive Science
by Donald Ross. Ross sets up Mirowski as one of the `foils’ to his own argument; parts of his book are explicitly intended as replies to Mirowski’s arguments (and in other parts, Ross anticipates Mirowski’s own replies to Ross’s arguments).

One of the reasons why I’ve never had very much time for the Dawkinses, Dennetts and Martin Gardners[2] of this world and their hostility to any critical analysis of the way in which “facts” are made….

Interestingly, Dennet plays a starring role in Ross’s own philosophy of mind.
According to Ross’s reading of Dennet, what we call `self-awareness’ is very much a `social construct’. In the Ross/Dennet model, human brains aren’t really `selves’ in the `folk-psychology’ sense (and even less are they the homo economicus of neo-classical economics); instead, human brains are fiendishly complex `societies’ of interacting agents, with no central control. Humans first invented a `theory of mind’ so that they could construct tractable predictive models of other people; hence our `theory of mind’ is inextricably a product of social interaction (and hence, a `social construct’). What we call `self-awareness’ is what happens when a human brain then reflexively applies this `theory of mind’ to itself (hence, self-awareness is also in some sense a `social construct’). It follows: if people in different societies (with different modes of social interaction) developed somewhat different `theories of mind’, they might then develop somewhat different forms of `self-awareness’.

Or at least, this is my bastardized rendition of my vague understanding of what appears to be a formidably complex and subtle philosophical argument presented in Ross’s book. I must admit I do not feel I understood all the arguments in the book (I am not a philosopher). But I still found it quite fascinating and I recommend it to anyone interested in `philosophy of economics’, particularly in excavating the epistemological foundations of the subject.

Seth: Little acts of discovery occur and then get shrouded in pomp and circumstance, and things go awry. A set of allegories and analogies is built around one set of facts and they seem to function for a while and then they’re shown as what they are…..

Science bores me. I appreciate its practical power but as philosophy it’s thin stuff. It’s either the philosophy of planes trains and automobiles, or it’s pure Platonism. I’ll take the medicine (maybe) but not the values.

Most career scientists are painfully aware of the extent to which science is a product of politics and social gamesmanship. There is a prevailing belief that `the truth wins in the end’, but I don’t think that any serious scientist would deny that, in the short term, much of the `conventional wisdom’ of science is in some sense a `social construct’.

Why, then are so many scientists so hostile towards `pomo’ critiques of science? I think the reason is this: there is a strong suspicion that these critiques are mounted by people who intrinsically hate and fear science because, basically, they aren’t good at it. In this story, the kids who barely passed mathematics in highschool and avoided all science courses in university (but who were good at writing essays and doing what Rutherford once disparagingly called `scholarship’) grew up to become humanities professors, and became alarmed and dismayed at the apparent looming irrelevance of their own chosen specialization in an increasingly technological and scientific (`scientistic’?) world. So, they mount a counterattack, where they try to undermine Science’s claim to epistemological supremacy by dismissing it as a `social construct’, no better to any other religion or mythology.

Now, this dismissal of the `pomo crowd’ and their `pomo critiques’ of science might be unfair and ad hominem. But when someone makes a series of sweeping and inaccurate generalizations about the formation of scientific knowledge, and then ends by saying `Science bores me’, he goes a long way towards reinforcing the stereotype that the `pomo crowd’ are a bunch of ignorant luddites.

28

Marcus Pivato 06.07.08 at 7:24 pm

Argh. The paragraph beginning with `Science bores me. appreciate its practical power but as philosophy it’s thin stuff. ‘ is supposed to be indented an italicized: it is part of my quotation of Seth’s earlier post. (Hopefully it is clear that the remaining paragraphs are essentially a rebuttal of this statement). Science does not bore me. (And a `preview’ option in this blog would be a good thing)

29

HH 06.07.08 at 8:00 pm

If we view scientific method as an intellectual toolkit well-suited to subjects that exhibit the properties of fields, functions, populations, and quantifiable behaviors, then it makes a nice fit for study of emergent social and political behavior on the Internet.

“Knowledge physics” will be a new domain that marries the rigor of the physical sciences with the goals of social scientists. Treating the interactions of wired people as analytically tractable phenomena will lead to fruitful discoveries, possibly including new methods for the synthesis of trust and new systems of societal self-regulation.

The belief that there is nothing new under the intellectual sun will be challenged as new theoretical illumination falls upon our emerging digital society.

30

Colin Danby 06.07.08 at 9:09 pm

Ditton on the Desrosières.

The Mirowski books are great though not exactly apposite here (and, like Daniel, I *wish* people wouldn’t throw around “pomo” so ignorantly.)

More to the point, over its 30-odd years the journal _Accounting, organizations and society_ has published a lot of the kind of work Daniel calls for.

A few random references in this general area:

Carruthers, Bruce G. and Wendy Nelson Espeland. 1991. “Accounting for Rationality: Double-Entry Bookkeeping and the Rhetoric of Economic Rationality.” American Journal of Sociology 97(1): 31-69.

Lavoie, Don. 1987. “The Accounting of Interpretations and the Interpretation of Accounts: The Communicative Function of the ‘Language of Business’.” Accounting, Organizations and Society 12(6): 579-604.

Poovey, Mary. 1998. A History of the Modern Fact. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

Suzuki, Tomo. 2003a. “The Accounting Figuration of Business Statistics as a Foundation for the Spread of Economic Ideas” Accounting, Organizations, and Society 28, 471-517.

Tsing, Anna. 2000a. “Inside the Economy of Appearances.” Public Culture 12(1): 115-144.

31

seth edenbaum 06.07.08 at 10:19 pm

“also boring: books”…
Books are interesting. The Alps are beautiful but dumb.

“Science bores me” is bit much; hyperbole directed at those who put the word “scholarship” in scare quotes. In more mundane language I simply don’t see science, in the sense of a consideration of the world as a mapping of externalities, helping to resolve any of our central philosophical or political questions. I gave three example: trade, affirmative action and (for lack of a better word) education. In all three I’d argue generalizations are not universally applicable, either as a matter of logic or more obviously politics, but the search for generalizations is what predominates discussion.

I posted a comment on the thread about yet another abomination from Fox pointing out the thanks we owe Murdoch for reminding people that the press should be not neutral but engaged. I don’t read TPM out of some pretense that it’s neutral (and much of what I read offends me) I read it because the writers are articulately personally and intellectually involved in the debate over the issues and because by and large unlike Fox they’re not stupid. Unopinionated writing is not writing without bias, it’s writing where the biases are hidden. One of the most annoying things about unsophisticated liberals (and that’s many of them) is the sense that they’re immune to the foibles of their opponents. It the trait in so many Americans that drives people from other countries nuts.

Where are all the native Arabic speakers in discussions of Iraq? There’s not one Palestinian voice at the “reality based” TPM, and it affects the reporting immensely. It skews it to the point where it’s as deserving of mockery as Fox. But that’s something reason cannot solve, nor will it ever. Reason cannot replace self-representation. As long as so called “serious” people are allowed to frame the debate as between reason and irrationalism the debate will be bogged down in these side issues.

A note on reading. I read everything as an argument from a virtue ethic. If I read an armchair revolutionary it usually becomes clear pretty quickly that that’s what he is. Manners describe an ethos. Everything in words can be read as an example of a form and every written opinion is self-reporting. The difference between what someone believes and what they say they believe is often pretty clear, but only if you refuse to take them at their word. What’s the virtue ethic of geek culture, of libertarianism or the New Atheism? Of Darwinian Fundamentalism?
If something isn’t worth reading as a primary text, worth reading in itself, for me it’s not worth reading at all. Interesting writing is writing where the space between the author’s intentions and his desires becomes the subject. That writing, whether by intention or without it, manifests a philosophical awareness, a respect for ambiguity and the specificity of personal experience much more important to the health of a democracy than the search for scientific truth.

32

Righteous Bubba 06.08.08 at 12:09 am

If something isn’t worth reading as a primary text, worth reading in itself, for me it’s not worth reading at all.

I see. A radical view.

33

seth edenbaum 06.08.08 at 2:33 am

“for me”
Phrased that way it’s what my old man used to call “pompous diction” and then the stress is less on the caveat than on the pronouncement that follows. I should have just said I’m not interested in secondary texts. And though I think your response is snark, yes Bubba it’s not a common view anymore. If I can’t read a piece of writing for subtext, and think that the text somehow or other is still cohesive at that level (whatever the author’s intention) I’m not interested. If I were a biologist I would be making a mistake. But if I were a biologist I would still think it important to know how to read texts that way: to read something as a humanist rather than a technocrat, computer geek or automobile mechanic.
I have a limited interest in “original intent” but it’s the basis of a lot of arguments these days, not just those of Nino Scalia.

34

virgil xenophon 06.08.08 at 2:51 am

hh: Is this new domain of “knowledge physics” which you predict/perceive for an increasingly “wired” and “digitalized” society (and trust me, I’m already half-way there with you–this is an old dog only too willing to be taught new tricks–now whether I can learn them….) in your eyes an unalloyed good(or even an unalloyed new God) that man may, smorgasbord-like, access in varying degrees to pick and choose a level of involvement,i.e., enjoy the fruits of the Borg collective as an independent 1099-like contractor; or is one to be gradually, unconsciously, absorbed in the collective digital domain as a “captured” W-2 organization man who has no choice but to participate or be left behind in an evolutionary backwater?

I ask this because we already see the effects of the “digital divide” on various classes
of society(the poor, elderly, etc.) as more and more of the life of the world moves onto the internet. And is/will “cloud computing” a/become a
precursor of a new God as the increasing power of AI plays out? Or, will digitalization allow us to play out a Neitzchean drama of the rise and fall and rise again all within our own psyche and truly become our own uber-informed Gods? Will we come to learn to fall back on the collective knowledge of the cloud–or upon what was formerly an abyss, but is now the wired, digitalized, charged new-model form of our by then well-informed souls?

35

virgil xenophon 06.08.08 at 3:10 am

PS to hh: I don’t know which Gods you worship, but as I live in New Orleans I am forced(?) to kneel at the alter of hedonism, so am probable a pretty poor recruit for anyone’s new model anything–unless its
a newly-found bottle of well-aged booze.

36

Righteous Bubba 06.08.08 at 4:03 am

here’s a Google cache.

Thanks Matt.

37

HH 06.08.08 at 4:23 pm

“will “cloud computing” a/become a
precursor of a new God as the increasing power of AI plays out? Or, will digitalization allow us to play out a Neitzchean drama of the rise and fall and rise again all within our own psyche and truly become our own uber-informed Gods??”

This is an excellent question, and I think it gets at why many of the superb minds on this blog bristle at the notion of technologically mediated radical social transformation.

It is nothing less than heroic intellectuallism that may be an endangered species in digital society. The notion of ego-less philosophy is anathema to the polymaths, prodigies, savants, and assorted hep-cats who dominate university facuties and academic conferences. Most existing schools of philosophy are organized around the works of “greats.” Any historical trend that disperses intellectual greatness into a cloud is viewed with suspicion by most existing or wannabe greats.

But the rise of networked society poses just such a threat. It blows away the geographically chartered university and replaces it with domain based global faculties. It levels the field for study and contribution in any specialty and tears down barriers to entry. These changes will not be welcomed by contented intellectual franchise holders in conventional institutions.

To be sure, there have always been stray high-energy particles in the intellectual world, like Buckminster Fuller or Stephen Wolfram, but these “cranks” have been relegated to the periphery. What is about to happen is the release of an enormous cognitive surplus of untapped energy as anyone with half a clue finds a means of expressing ideas on subjects of interest. Most of this will be dross, but some of it will rival the best work of the old order.

So my answer is I don’t know how free digital society will be in a conventional political sense, but I believe it will exhibit degrees of freedom and possibility that we have never known before, such as the ability of an individual to live many concurrent identities. As the minds of the world begin to link up in a Teilhardian superorganism, all sorts of phenomena will emerge. The intellectual world will likely divide into groups that welcome and resist this change. It has ever been thus.

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hardindr 06.08.08 at 5:11 pm

Re #7

D^2

You may be interested in this new book, Doubt is Their Product, authored by David Michaels.

39

J Thomas 06.09.08 at 12:54 pm

“…it will exhibit degrees of freedom and possibility that we have never known before, such as the ability of an individual to live many concurrent identities.”

I believe that last one will seem strictly limited once people settle down.

The idea that you can troll many pallid online discussions posing as multiple other people will seem generally useless. Whatever for? If you could present multiple identities to people who were available for anonymous sex, that would be somewhat different….

And who will believe rumors started by people they don’t trust? The big gain will be in an increased ability to anonymously send people things they can check themselves. That’s a plus but not a great big one.

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HH 06.09.08 at 1:22 pm

“I believe that last one will seem strictly limited once people settle down.

The idea that you can troll many pallid online discussions posing as multiple other people will seem generally useless. Whatever for? If you could present multiple identities to people who were available for anonymous sex, that would be somewhat different….

And who will believe rumors started by people they don’t trust? The big gain will be in an increased ability to anonymously send people things they can check themselves. That’s a plus but not a great big one.”

I don’t think you are extrapolating well. We are just at the beginning of a new era of exploration, innovation, and collective evolution of new ways of interacting with each other. Expectnig things to “settle down” is myopic. This isn’t going to settle down. If anything, the tempo of digital life will increase, because petroleum depletion will cut down travel options significantly.

The density and velocity of human communication is increasing dramatically. This will bring significant social change, just as it did in the time of Gutenberg. The fact that I can usefully apply terms from physics to the domain of Internet knowledge propagation shows that a new kind of social science is being born.

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engels 06.09.08 at 2:35 pm

My prediction is that some time in the future Seth Edenbaum and HH will meet in physical space, and immediately cancel each other out in a burst of gamme radiation.

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HH 06.09.08 at 3:32 pm

“My prediction is that some time in the future Seth Edenbaum and HH will meet in physical space, and immediately cancel each other out in a burst of gamme radiation.”

At least Seth is imaginative. What do you have to offer, Herr Engels?

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Henry 06.09.08 at 3:56 pm

“Well up above the tropostrata
There is a region stark and stellar
Where, on a streak of anti-matter
Lived Dr. Edward Anti-Teller.

Remote from Fusion’s origin,
He lived unguessed and unawares
With all his antikith and kin,
And kept macassars on his chairs.

One morning, idling by the sea,
He spied a tin of monstrous girth
That bore three letters: A. E. C.
Out stepped a visitor from Earth.

Then, shouting gladly o’er the sands,
Met two who in their alien ways
Were like as lentils. Their right hands
Clasped, and the rest was gamma rays.”

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Walt 06.09.08 at 4:33 pm

I think suggesting that the company you keep may radically increase your chances of turning into gamma radiation counts as imaginative.

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J Thomas 06.09.08 at 4:50 pm

“This isn’t going to settle down. If anything, the tempo of digital life will increase, because petroleum depletion will cut down travel options significantly.”

I kind of hope you’re right.

However, most people mostly care about the people they know personally. A few of us are now inventing new communities with like-minded people around the world who happen to speak the same dialect of the same language and who want the same sort of interactions. How much will that matter?

I see it with my wife’s games. A small number of people all over the world are playing the same text-based fantasy games. They do a lot of roleplaying. They cyber. Occasionally a young woman will wind up taking flights through the USA, canada, australia, britain, and maybe korea visiting the various young men who are infatuated with her. Eight a dozen of them have gotten pregnant and six are married. Sometimes it’s the guys who travel. So anyway, my wife spends two or three hours a day at her keyboard pretending she’s a headcount in republican rome, or a student at Miskatonic university. It makes some sort of difference in her life. She interacts with perhaps a hundred people she otherwise would have no contact with.

At first thought it all looks trivial. But after extended talks with the canadians online my wife has decided she wants to immigrate to canada. And they tell her it’s easy. All we have to do is agree to take our skills to some part of canada that nobody wants to live and apply them there, and we can be canadians!

And yet as travel gets more expensive I expect people will spend more of their attention on people they can actually be with. Suppose that in 1800 butchers in london could get almost-immediate communication with butchers in calcutta, or for that matter anyone in calcutta that wanted to talk to them. Would it have made much difference? What would they have to say to each other?

People talked about the tremendous difference the iraqi bloggers would make. I don’t see that they made any difference at all, except to themselves. As it turned out, an iraqi blogger who said what americans wanted to hear could easily get $300/month for doing it — a better than average income for rather little work. A number of them parleyed that into a ticket out of the country.

For 5 years the main effect of iraqi bloggers has been that americans who care about that sort of thing have found iraqis who tell them whatever it is they want to hear, and those americans have mostly ignored the iraqis who say things they don’t want to hear. People who’re against the war and listen to iraqis, listen to iraqis who say things are terrible. People who’re for the war and listen to iraqis, listen to iraqis who say things aren’t that bad and getting better. The net result of 5 years of iraqi blogging is a few opportunities for iraqi bloggers who picked the profitable side.

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HH 06.09.08 at 5:56 pm

The gods of genetic inheritance and character formation plays many tricks on us, and one of the worst is placing unusual individuals in small, homogeneous conventional communities. In the past, such people could either stay put and be suffocated by the local community, or travel to a big city with the hope of find other like-minded people.

In the Internet age, nobody has to be isolated any more. There is an infinite number of possible affinity groups, and they are all just a few clicks away from realization. It took millenia for the conventions and protocols of face-to-face introductions of strangers and granting of trust to become established. We don’t think of a letter of introduction as technology, but it is was an important invention that facilitates the transfer of trust. Similar structures will evolve rapidly on the Internet, because everything happens faster in this domain.

The Internet will not be dismissed as a fad or pigeon-holed as a peripheral technology. It is a container paradigm that will shape many social phenomena and institutions that we have long considered unalterable. A new kind of social science will arise based on the study of knowledge physics on the Internet. Watch and learn.

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seth edenbaum 06.09.08 at 6:38 pm

j thomas,
the ability to read translations of the Arabic press has been a boon, but often that translation has been done by amateurs and/or natives of countries outside the US.
The fact that experts in the English speaking world speak mostly to experts in the english speaking world is the larger problem.
Henry Farrell is behind the curve regarding American political and intellectual culture, just as Marc Lynch is behind the curve in relation to the state of play in Iraq; and both of them would consider themselves to be left of center. But even seeing them as I do as in the middle, the middle has shifted. And that’s a good thing.

One of the factors mitigating the ghettoized state of American discourse has been the influx of immigrants, legal and illegal, over the past generation. That’s why I don’t get involved with that argument one way or the other. Both sides make short sighted and self-interested defenses of their positions, but social globalization will continue to help the US ride out recent (self-induced) storms. Henry Farrell is an immigrant, and even with his Americanized sensibility he’s still a European. As I said Farrell, along with Josh Marshall and Barack Obama is the new middle. The most annoying thing to me is the argument from self-invention: as if any of them came up with any of this themselves. It’s all pretty much predictable. I’m grateful GWB hasn’t blown us up but other than that there’ve been no surprises.

My general point is the same: being a schoolmaster without an imagination is not very useful. Having a degree in symbolic manipulation means nothing if the relations of symbol to object and event keep changing. The model of the intellectual as auto mechanic is seen now more than at any time in the last century, as absurd. The academy lags.

I’d also say that being able to play chess or exchange recipes over the internet with someone in Tashkent or Cartagena is better I think, than being able to join them in imagined virtual worlds, or even than the ability to discuss politics. The former is grounded in this world, without being freighted with it, and that argues for it being another factor mitigating against societal atomization. That’s a longer argument though.

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engels 06.09.08 at 10:04 pm

What do you have to offer, Herr Engels?

Snark. Please don’t tell me there’s no market for it in the coming techno-utopia…

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HH 06.09.08 at 10:26 pm

“Snark. Please don’t tell me there’s no market for it in the coming techno-utopia…”

It won’t be a Utopia; it will be a bigger world with many more possibilities. Among those possibilities will be the reordering and refinement of practical and philosophical studies of human society.

You can snark all you like, Herr Engels. There were snarkmeisters ridiculing Gutenberg for trying to sell cheap paper books when everyone knew that a real book was handwritten on parchment. Special ridicule was reserved for those who predicted that important social changes would result from pressing ink on paper with movable type.

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J Thomas 06.09.08 at 11:06 pm

“I’d also say that being able to play chess or exchange recipes over the internet with someone in Tashkent or Cartagena is better I think, than being able to join them in imagined virtual worlds, or even than the ability to discuss politics.”

Maybe so.

Here’s my experience with recipes. My old aunt had a special recipe for a pie that make its own crust. I got the recipe and used it for some time, and then I lost it in a disk crash. I was sure I had it backed up on multiple floppies….

So I looked on the internet. And quickly I found a crustless cocoanut pie, a crustless chess pie, and a crustless sweet potato pie. Two of them had the label “Mother’s Day Pie”. When I looked for Mother’s Day Pie I found hundreds of copies of the exact same recipe with no variations. It was just like the way I remembered my aunt’s recipe, I didn’t notice any variation.

I think maybe thousands or millions of families had a secret family recipe that turned out to be just like all the others.

Will it be like that all over?

I have every reason to think some sort of special changes will come from the net, but the particular examples I’ve heard about are none of them very plausible. The special changes will probably be things we don’t much predict ahead of time.

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