In your face, beer snobs!

I’ll have a Saison Dupont, thanks. My current favorite summer beer.

Crowley’s obviously the only one of the three with a clue.

Bud Light, Jesus Christ. As bad as Cruzcampo. Worse perhaps.

Daniel is correct. It’s priced like comparable craft brews, around $10 a sixpack (not per bottle).

Stone makes a better American IPA anyway.

what basically appears to have happened is that someone told them that there was a thing called IPA, and it had lots of hops, and then let the brewers make up the rest.

I’m foncused – Isn’t this precisely what Dogfish is known for?

Do they make a cheaper version for the off-trade?

Yes: but it’s called Dogfish 90, if I recall correctly.

My wife is German and claims to hate Amercian beers. We have some friends that fancy themselves beer aficionados. I think beer in general is pretty… nasty. So, I challenged them to a double blind taste test of Bud (US version), Bud (Czech), and a couple other light beers. After three rounds Bud (American) won. All sorts of excuses were made, the results not accepted and the testing was never discussed again.

DN

It’s not actively horrible like Sierra Nevada, a beer which I swear would turn your sinuses inside out if you drank a second.

I’m not the only one who thinks this? Vindication!

I’m not the only one who thinks this? Vindication!

I’ll happily join the chorus. That stuff is bought by wannabe beer snobs with neither knowledge nor taste.

The 120-min IPA is definitely more expensive but not $10/bottle :) It’s more like 21% ABV too, not 9%.

The 90-minute IPA is 9% ABV, and is a much better balance for my taste. It runs about $48/case or $2/bottle in my area (PA).

The 60-minute IPA is only 6% ABV and thus much more suitable as a ‘volume’ beer and only about $30/case to boot.

Cheers!

So how does Stella Artois rate in this comparison? I never really drink it, even though easily 50% of the bars around here stock it, as it seems to be on offer mainly for the benefit of junior marketing execs who think it will make them seem cool to the punk girls in the corner booth.

I kinda like Stone Arrogant Bastard now and then (especially with spicy food) but basically the “I can out-hop you!” contest among brewmasters leaves me pretty cold. Most of the time it kills any chance for the beer to have any kind of complexity. (But then I’m very Belgian-oriented so those beers aren’t intended for the likes of me anyway.)

There’s 60, 90, and 120 minute IPA from Dogfishhead. The 60 minute you can buy in 6 packs or get on tap some places. It’s normal “craft beer” prices. The 90 minute I’ve mostly seen sold in 4-packs, for about $10-$12 dollars. The 120 minute I’ve only ever seen sold (in New York, New Jersey, and Philadelphia, at least- maybe they do it differently elsewhere) in individual 120z bottles, for between $9 and $12 a bottle, usually about $10. I guess it was originally 20%, but was later reduced to 18% abv. See here:

http://www.dogfish.com/brews-spirits/the-brews/occassional-rarities/120-minute-ipa.htm

I like it a lot, but it’s not something I’d drink several of, or even want to drink every day, I think.

A side effect of this discussion is the revelation that I am not supposed to like Blue Moon.

I don’t know what The Daily Beast is, but their article on this topic manages to trot out more Jamaican stereotypes than I thought could be fit in one coherent paragraph. (It was linked to in the NYT article linked to by D^2^.)

A side effect of this discussion is the revelation that I am not supposed to like Blue Moon.

It’s not actually horrible, but for a bit more you can get an actually good beer in the style it’s mimicking, namely Hoegaarden. Worth it.

(But please keep thosoe damn lemon slices away from it. Please.)

Yes but Hoe is a half- decent wit- an interesting style- where Stella is a very ordinary boring pilsner- a style Belgians have no business even dabbling in.

Naturally, they’re making a mint off the stuff. Doesn’t mean I have to contribute to the profits.

There’s no such thing as “American beer” once you get beyond the mass-market swill. There are great craft brews in every style known to man.

Is asking in which category Sam Adams belongs an innocuous question, or do I run the risk of inciting tumultuous behavior?

‘So how does Stella Artois rate in this comparison? I never really drink it, even though easily 50% of the bars around here stock it, as it seems to be on offer mainly for the benefit of junior marketing execs who think it will make them seem cool to the punk girls in the corner booth.’

I am that junior marketing exec! Hasn’t worked though.

Obama’s just trying to score points in Missouri, a swing state.

good luck telling that to the Belgians.

Thread merge! Thread merge with Ingrid’s below!

Salient, there are a million different styles of beer, and preferences among them are a very personal thing even before you get down to arguments about the best examples of each style. I recommend taking a look at a site called beeradvocate.com that’s sort of an epinions cum about.com for beer. I often disagree with the reviews there but what they do have is good capsule descriptions of a large variety of styles and lists of the more readily obtainable (in the US) examples of each.

Just be thankful that the days of the dry drunk at the White House are gone.

Nice for summer drinking but I recognize not many men would be seen dead with one.

I’m secure enough in my gender identity that I’ve been known to quaff a Lindemanns’s kriek or framboise now and then. ;)

I recommend taking a look at a site called beeradvocate.com that’s sort of an epinions cum about.com for beer.

! This has made my day. But I’m still curious to know what folks would pick in Gates’ shoes, or Crowley’s shoes, or Obama’s shoes. I think CJColucci had a good point — if I were Obama, I’d be looking into (or would have already looked into) what beers are produced and/or consumed in Missouri, Virginia, and/or Florida. If I were Crowley or Gates, though, I don’t know.

Boddingtons! Go Manchester!

No. I have drunk Boddies’ bitter, and I could understand why it had a following, but that was a long time ago. Since 1989 it’s just been a brand.

(Much more on the ‘Manchester pale’ style of bitter here. I don’t like it much, which is a bit of a pain as there’s plenty of it here in Manchester.)

What’s better than Bud Light? Almost anything, including staying off the beer altogether.

What’s better than Red Stripe? Not a lot, to my mind; good call by Professor Gates. (Although I’ve never tasted D&G’s own; in the UK it’s brewed under licence by Charles Wells.) I have very fond memories of a couple of cans of Crucial Brew on a hot day – this was D&G’s answer to Special Brew, sold in black 330ml cans – but I haven’t seen it in years.

What’s better than Blue Moon? Well, what is Blue Moon – a wheat beer, a white beer, a Weizen? But whatever it is, I’m sure you can get a better version of the same style from a brewery other than Coors. (You can almost certainly get worse versions, too.)

Someone mentioned a beer brewed at 18%. Is that even possible? How do they keep the fermentation going?

Much more on the ‘Manchester pale’ style of bitter here

Oops. Make that here.

Someone mentioned a beer brewed at 18%. Is that even possible? How do they keep the fermentation going?

The brewer describes the beer here.

And apparently it is indeed now possible to purchase their 120 minute IPA as part of a twelve-pack: see here.

Strange that people are boosting beer from Manchester. English beer north of Burton tends to be fizzy and not very good. Better to stick to the south and west.

Strange that people are boosting beer from Manchester.

That’s just Henri. I write about beer from Manchester, but I don’t boost much of it.

English beer north of Burton tends to be fizzy and not very good.

Oh well, more for me.

Does he say how they keep the fermentation going?

No, he doesn’t, and he doesn’t say anything else interesting either. :-[ My apologies, I made the mistake of sharing the link before watching the video.

My second-hand understanding is that they keep the fermentation going by continually adding hops throughout brewing, which (if I’m understanding correctly) provides the sugar necessary to feed the yeast. It sounds a bit like keeping a fire going by pouring ever-increasing amounts of lighter fluid on it…

How another country’s mass-market beer is supposed to be something exciting, I’ll never know.

It’s the magical world of marketing, Tom.

I’m a little surprised that no one has mentioned the tradition dating back to Johnson of only stocking American brewed beers in the White House. I think Obama’s choice might have something to do with that.

In any case, I think psychoanalyzing presidential beer is probably a wasted effort.

I’m not a beer snob, but I do enjoy variety. My “this will be in any bar” stand-bys are Dos Equis and Rolling Rock, though my favorite is probably Breckenridge Brewery Agave Wheat.

“Stay thirsty, my friends.” :)

About very high alcohol content yeast:
It mostly comes down to very alcohol resistant strains of yeast. There are now strains of yeast available that can survive to nearly 21% alcohol. In practice, yeast get more temperamental as the alcohol concentration increases, so fastidious brewing practices are necessary. Some homebrewers suggest adding in additional malt in stages to keep the yeast from burning out too soon. I’m not sure yet whether or not that should be necessary.

i like stella a lot, i don’t mind becks or heineken, i dislike amstel: and actually i’m a bit baffled by this inability to tell them apart, especially if it’s being wrangled into some kind of connoiseurship; whether or not you like them, they taste quite different — it slightly makes me wonder how much you’re actually getting out of the beers you do favour, or their flavours anyway, with such underperforming tongues

lawyers mostly drink Heineken and Amstel Light

Lawyers at my firm seem to prefer Stella, to where it’s a required feature at firm picnics, etc.

Steve LaBonne @60 OK that’s good enough for me! But is it GM?

belle le triste @61 lol (yes: ol!) I like Stella too, though that’s probably primarily because that’s what I started out drinking once past the cider-and-wine-in-the-park stage, and it has since continued to prove perfectly adequate for my purposes (and over here no more expensive than similar beverages). Grolsch and yes, Becks and the newish 5% Heineken- a little less chemical than the old Heineken Export, to my refained palate – and then, as a slightly sweet but acceptable alternative, Kronenbourg.

Re: other remarks, I don’t think Stella (or ‘wifebeater’ as it’s charmingly nicknamed) has conveyed any aura of sophistication to anyone on British shores since about 1986. In fact there is now (if it hasn’t fizzled out) an ‘Artois suite’ of beverages being marketed, presumably at least in part to deal with the image problem.

The Czech Budweiser (Budvar) is quite pleasant – compared to the US drink of that name, certainly – and sometimes comes in a reasonable-sized bottle.

And I have to mention Tennent’s Super, known as ‘electric soup’ in Glasgow (Scotland). It manages to combine the attributes of being 9% abv and being widely enjoyed a few pints (well, cans) at a time.

“If you’re not drinking Czech pilsner in the Czech Republic, you’re not drinking Czech pilsner. The stuff we get in bottles in the US bears absolutely zero resemblance to the stuff I gladly drowned in in Prague. Next to kölsch, Czech pilsner is the most temperamental and volatile style of beer I’ve ever had”

That was the claim before the _blind_ taste test. Afterwards it was excuse making. Try it yourself, and be honest. I’m betting the results will surprise you.

DN

I can’t believe I just typed “check”. Wow.

Incredibly, according to the letters section of today’s All Things Considered, a whole bunch of people wrote in to suggest that they drink Black-And-Tan, because it would symbolize communities coming together. Apparently a whole lot of people don’t know who the Black-And-Tans were. I’m guessing that a Boston-area cop does, though.

That was the claim before the blind taste test. Afterwards it was excuse making. Try it yourself, and be honest. I’m betting the results will surprise you.

DN, I read that claim to mean that you can’t fairly judge a Czech pilsner in the US, period (because it won’t travel/store well?). How valid it is, I don’t know, but I don’t think your taste test can be used as evidence against the claim.

71 is a good point. Many beers seem to be very inconsistent.

I have plenty of scorn for most of the mass market beers listed above, but i have to say, if you’ve been drinking sierra nevada for 25 years, you have no taste. after only a few years living on the west coast i turned into a beer snob pretty quick. (shout out to the toronado in san francisco, beer lover’s paradise, and better for variety and belgian style ales than most of the bars ive been to in belgium)

myself, i like some IPAs, but most of all i like variety. of the larger west coast microbreweries, stone and north coast are generally my favorites, but lagunitas is a close second, and i find rogue too gimmicky to bother with.

regarding the “steam beer” comment above, on the tour of the anchor brewery they themselves admit that noone really knows what “steam” bear was, it’s mainly a post-hoc rationalization and marketing gimmick. good luck finding brewing records or tasting notes for that era.

I have plenty of scorn for most of the mass market beers listed above, but i have to say, if you’ve been drinking sierra nevada for 25 years, you have no taste.

I thought this line would work for spouses too, much to the amusement of the emergency-room staff.

I must have really awesome taste buds. I can tell the difference between many beers; if you can’t tell the difference between Czechvar and Budweiser that is just sad.

As for the shift from Red Stripe to Sam Adams, my respect for Mr. Gates just dropped a notch. Sam Adams is Elitist crap.

Lindemann’s Kriek is super-sweet compared to every other cherry lambic you’ll ever encounter (probably), which is probably why it’s also much, much easier to find.

#82 … Don’t know the others, but I’d say that Sam Smith’s exemplifies what is bad about northern bitter.

[Mind you, I said that before I noticed that the Gatesgate thread was up to 648 comments, of which a good 500 amount to little more than abuse. So is it appreciation of alcohol, or enjoyment of the opportunities it provides for the unleashing of primal aggression, that is more important…?]

In light of Tyler Cowen’s post about the end of the French culinary dominance I actually find the header the most interesting part of this post: the implied dichotomy that you either have to be a Budweiser drinker or a beer snob. Tyler doesn’t discuss the “informal economics of cuisine”, but if there’s such a thing then it’s likely that economies of scale and competitive pressures erode quality gradations to the point where all the products available will be at the lowest common denominator quality level. This status will continue for awhile until a new generation of customers dissatisfied with the lack of variation will vertically integrate into production and create a low-output/high-effort/high-price product that is readily distinguishable from the low-end product. Iow, a Joe-the-plumber vs. beer snob dichotomy.

(Of course if the high end market poses too much of a competitive thread the low-end producers will counter with low-quality/high-status products of the Stella/Heineken variety, and the cycle starts anew…)

_everyone I know here from north of Birmingham_

Yes but Burton is north of Birmingham and still makes “southern” beer as well as anyone in the form of Marston’s Pedigree. I suspect the north, beerwise, starts around Stoke. (Actually, Jennings (Lake District) make an excellent pint, so there are exceptions …)

Correction: fake imported Belgian beer. Even yuppier.

What do you all think of Bass ale? I really enjoy a good beer, but am by no means a connoisseur. I like lambics alot, enjoy a good pint of Guinness (when you can get it – I find that you really have to be selective in your choice of bars or you just get crap) but my default beer has been Bass or a long time. It’s what I think of as ‘beer’. Admittedly, I think I probably started drinking it after reading Housman in college, so I think I was being clever.
I also like Magic Hat #9, although sometimes the flowery aftertaste annoys me. Other times, though, it’s perfect.

Dudes… has it occurred to any of you that these three men are all being poseurs for the camera?

Yes.

And by the way: Chris B, if we happen to run into one another in Copenhagen, then it seems that I am in fact contractually obliged to offer you a Carlsberg. You have been warned.

CK Dexter @98 – Seriously? A terrible joke, a resistant wine-supporter, or someone who just hasn’t been paying attention for the last 10 years?

I chuckled when Inbev bought Budweiser, because I’d already been saying for a while that there was almost no difference between Stella and Bud.

Regarding debates about whether beers are too hoppy, that’s like debating whether salsa is too spicy. No answer.

One thing on which Budweiser gets credit: I took a Beer & Wine Appreciation class in college, and the upstate NY brewmaster of Budweiser spoke. His major point: the goal of Budweiser isn’t refinement, it’s consistency. Their goal for the last few decades, if not longer, is to make sure every one of their beers tastes exactly the same, and they’ve done a solid job of that at least.

“That stuff is bought by wannabe beer snobs with neither knowledge nor taste.”

As opposed to REAL beer snobs who would never deign to sully their palates with cheap, arriviste swill like that. Wow…just, wow.

Someone in the comments spoke of Budweiser tasting like corn; it’s made with rice as an adjunct, not corn. I don’t care for it a great deal either, but if you want to taste corn, find a Little Kings Cream Ale. That used to taste like an ADM plant smells.

The Chezck Pils we used came back with us on the plane, and were blind taste tested within a week of our return. So, traveling well was not an issue. My friends thought they were pretty knowledgeable about beer. My wife was very sure she was a beer aficionado. It could be they are wrong. It could be the people who’ve never tested themselves with a blind test are wrong. I’m betting a really really small number of the people claiming to tell the difference between good beers and bad beers actually can do so without the can in front.

I think it is just another sign that Obama is pretty self-aware that he choose Bud. It really is about as good as any other beer.

should have added to 110: I’m not claiming it doesn’t follow — I don’t know what happens to beer when it flies or otherwise travels.

Scott Martens @96 – Red Stripe is Jamaican (Rasta don’t drink) party beer. Old timers I suppose still drink Dragon Stout or Guinness (with or without condensed milk) and of course rum is the national drink (Wray and Nephew Overproof best in my book), but Red Stripe was made by DG, a proper JA brand, who also make/made other standards like Old Jamaica ginger beer, grape soda, and Ting. Whether it’s been bought up by a big corporation doesn’t really change its status I wouldn’t have thought. It’s still the stock Jamaican beer – the JA equivalent of Bud in the US, I suppose.

————————————————————————————————-

A friend has just reminded me of Ayingerbrau, who do lager in three styles (strengths) of which the weakest, actually called Ayingerbrau, is the best tasting, and still not watery @ about 4.5 IIRC – it tastes like a ‘premium’ lager. The strongest (can’t remember what its called) is pretty brutal – not by the standards under discussion above, but certainly a bit too strong for extended drinking sessions if you’re accustomed to 5-and-a-little-bit. Think it’s approaching 7%: the extra %age point or two soon adds up, and more importantly gives a steeper gradient. In any case it’s also unpleasantly dark, syrupy and grim-tasting.

The 4.5 one is not bad-tasting – maybe comparable to a slightly rougher Budvar – but the really memorable thing is that it’s staggeringly cheap (pun intended) – about a quid/pint cheaper than comparable lagers IIRC. I only know of two pubs that serve it – the Chandos in Traf Sq and the Lyceum on the Strand. I think I may have come across a couple of others – if so they would have been in London too, cos I know I’ve never encountered it elsewhere. In any case there must be more, presumably based on brewery affiliation.

Sam Smith’s, right. I don’t tend to pay much attention to breweries, being resolutely philistine in my approach to beer. Re name change – having been to the Lyceum a few months ago, I remembered some renaming was afoot, but not the details. It all comes back now. Not a happy choice of new name is it – sounds like a toilet cleaner or something.

a bulky manual explaining how to serve it, complete with a little petticoat

Now that’s dedication.

As dsquared says (94) there’s a genuine north-south beer divide

There are at least two divides. Yes, north of the Wash you’re more likely to get a head on your beer – vivid memories here of drinking in Cambridge and watching the last few bubbles on the top of a pint of Greene King wink out – but there’s also the “pale and hoppy”/”tawny and malty” divide, which essentially sets South Lancashire and West Yorkshire against the rest of the country. (Lucky rest.)

I buy 30-racks of Milwaukee’s Best Light and drink them by the score while pondering the effete snobbery of those who piss away their money on the ricey swill sold at twice the price of MBL by Budweiser. Ten seconds later I return to pondering deeper things like the uncanny resemblance of our black pug’s face to Yoda.