Speaking about Cheesesteaks

by Brian on June 14, 2006

The LA Times reports on the Philadelphia cheesesteak place that refuses to serve customers who don’t order in English. The message to customers is This is America. When Ordering “Speak English”. Just a few observations.

  1. I’m not sure what rule of English requires, or even permits, quote marks around the last two words in that sentence. I’m no prescriptivist, so I’m happy to be shown that this falls under some generally followed pattern, but it’s no pattern I’m familiar with.
  2. I’m very pleased that no place had a similar sign when I was trying to get fed in Paris using what could, charitably, be described as schoolboy French, as long as the schoolboy in question spent every class watching football rather than, say, studying French. And that pleasure is not just because if I had seen such a sign I’d have been like, Holy Cow, the Americans have captured Paris.
  3. This being the LA Times, they have to describe what a cheesesteak is: “a cholesterol-delivery device consisting of grilled strips of beef, melted cheese, onions and peppers on an Italian roll.” They also misquote the sign by removing the errant quote marks and adding a ‘please’. Those polite Southern Californians!

{ 51 comments }

1

Moleman 06.14.06 at 3:28 pm

Commence Philadelphian Complaints!

Luckily, it’s only 50 feet to the next cheesesteak place, and maybe 100 feet to a halfway decent one. Also, considering what they call cheesesteaks in Southern California, I’m not surprised they think they’re only cholesterol delivery systems. Not to mention they’ve described a crappy fajita more than a proper cheesesteak. Thin slices, people, shredded while cooking on the griddle. Jeez.

2

harry b 06.14.06 at 3:52 pm

maybe they speak english better than they “write” it.

3

abb1 06.14.06 at 3:54 pm

I remember some years ago in a small cafe in a small German village (somewhere between Amsterdam and Hanover) I asked the waiter to bring more milk for my coffee. The bastard absolutely refused to understand until I pronounced it properly: m-i-l-ch.

4

Uncle Kvetch 06.14.06 at 3:58 pm

1) Agreed on the gratuitous use of quotation marks. It’s maddening.

2) Speaking as a former Philadelphian I don’t tend to think of the prototypical cheesesteak as including peppers. Fried onions, maybe. But not peppers. But of course this is a topic for endless disputation…some locals actually think a “real” cheesesteak is made with Cheez-Wiz rather than, well, actual cheese. The horror.

3) Geno’s sucks and they subsist on the spillover from the legendary Pat’s Steaks across the street. Now we know the owner is a racist twit too. One more reason not to bother with them.

5

lemuel pitkin 06.14.06 at 4:01 pm

Unsympathetic they may be, but the intellects in question here don’t seem exactly vast.

6

Cheryl Morgan 06.14.06 at 4:30 pm

Having been born in England and lived most of my life there, I think I speak reasonably good English, but I have yet to find a taqueria in California where they can understand me. I have to get my American boyfriend to order – they understand him perfectly.

7

minerva 06.14.06 at 5:25 pm

The “blog” of “unnecessary” quotation marks is one of my favorites.

http://quotation-marks.blogspot.com/

8

harry b 06.14.06 at 6:11 pm

cheryl — I still have the same problem in many places, including, oddly, on airplanes. (18 years living in the States with a 2 year break recently). Either try to learn how to mimic the accent (I can’t — its the only one I can’t), or talk very slowly and very poshly.

9

Josh 06.14.06 at 6:17 pm

The use of quotation marks for emphasis instead of for quotation is so widespread that there’s got to be a name for that error. Does a widespread error count as a “generally followed pattern”? It’s pretty generally followed on signage below a certain threshold of schmanciness.

10

snuh 06.14.06 at 6:29 pm

you only need to add a mis-placed “…”, and the sign becomes a kaye grogan classic.

11

y81 06.14.06 at 6:30 pm

As josh says, the use of quotation marks for emphasis is a common pattern in signage prepared by uneducated people. You’ll find in gas station signs, diner menus, etc. It will be interesting to see if the generally non-prescriptivist professed beliefs of the Crooked Timber crowd will overcome their desire to make fun of less educated people whom they disagree politically: I would bet not.

12

joe o 06.14.06 at 7:01 pm

I would bet “not”.

13

Thomas 06.14.06 at 7:04 pm

Oh, y81, if only it were limited to uneducated people. It’s “everywhere”, as they’d say.

My understanding–having seen a television news report–is that the restaurant (scare quotes might be appropriate around that one) does in fact serve everyone, regardless of language.

14

classicalclarinet 06.14.06 at 7:19 pm

This is America. When Ordering “Speak Mohawk”

15

imag 06.14.06 at 7:24 pm

I’m not sure what rule of English requires, or even permits, quote marks around the last two words in that sentence.

Perhaps what the sign is trying to say is that this is America when ordering the Speak English(TM) or the Speak English Combo w/fries and medium drink. When ordering something else, this is Luxembourg.

16

Dan 06.14.06 at 7:26 pm

A cruise ship that I used to work on had signs in crew areas which read ‘You may only speak “English” when in passenger areas’. I always felt, given the subject matter, that the sign should have been proofread by someone who understood English grammar. Also, while I’m sure the quotes were meant for emphasis, they came across to me as meaning “that which you third world scumbags call English”.

17

ogged 06.14.06 at 7:30 pm

Maybe quote marks are just cheaper than underlines or italics.

Which other languages even have a word for “cheesesteak”?

18

Christopher M 06.14.06 at 7:31 pm

The Gallery of Misused Quotation Marks. (No pictures, unfortunately — and of course most of the signs have nothing to do with speaking English, so the irony is lost.)

19

mjh 06.14.06 at 7:36 pm

I think the “please” actually is on the sign–in red script, at a jaunty angle–though it’s easy to miss among the patriotic bric-a-brac.

20

harry b 06.14.06 at 7:41 pm

Being well educated prohibits us from making fun of bigots. Dammit, I should have paid less attention at school.

21

snuh 06.14.06 at 8:37 pm

re #20

but, for the less educated, surely it would be prohibited to make fun of college graduates, right? let’s ask y81, he seems to be quite a scholar of all the various rules regarding inter-socio-economic-group mocking.

22

DivGuy 06.14.06 at 9:23 pm

2) Speaking as a former Philadelphian I don’t tend to think of the prototypical cheesesteak as including peppers. Fried onions, maybe. But not peppers. But of course this is a topic for endless disputation…some locals actually think a “real” cheesesteak is made with Cheez-Wiz rather than, well, actual cheese. The horror.

A little moral clarity is called for here. There is reasonable dispute over the location of the best cheesesteaks and certain methods of cheesesteak preparation.

Whiz is gross, but I can accept disagreement over cheeses. (A perfect steak uses provolone, of course.)

However, one does not put peppers on a cheesesteak. Only a Californian would find that acceptable, and Californians are basically Martian terrorists anyway.

23

vivian 06.14.06 at 9:48 pm

Some Brits of my acquaintance would describe ordering in American as speaking ‘English’

Seriously, Brian, I bet these derive from spoken scare quotes that verbally highlight a phrase. Even when the speaker doesn’t use fingers to make the quotes. So until we come up with a pantomimed equivalent of <i> and </i>, you’ll see these.

24

Richard Bellamy 06.14.06 at 9:50 pm

There is, of course, a big difference between the question, “Is the Geno’s Steaks guy being an asshat?” and the question, “Should the Geno’s Steaks guy have to defend himself in an action brought by the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission?”

25

vivian 06.14.06 at 9:52 pm

Aargh, it worked in preview mode. Above last like should read “pantomimed equivalent of [HTML tags for emphasis and close emphasis]” guess the scare quotes are more robust than I thought…

26

JR 06.14.06 at 10:43 pm

Every native speaker of American English understands what is meant by the quotation marks. It means that the material within the marks is a catch-phrase– something that is not original and is meant to be repeated in various appropriate contexts. Although this is a non-standard usage it is very common, particularly in signs and similar material intended to be viewed by the general public (menus and flyers, for example).

27

The Continental Op 06.14.06 at 11:39 pm

Speaking as a displaced Philadelphian, I’d sooner show up at an Eagles’ game wearing a Dallas Cowboys jersey than eat a cheesesteak from Geno’s or Pat’s. Though my former neighbors at 10th & Carpenter would probably shoot me for saying so, the very best cheesesteak is in the ‘burbs — Leo’s in Folcroft. And the very best Philly sandwich isn’t even a cheesesteak at all. It’s the roast pork with broccoli rabe and sharp provolone from Tony Luke’s (the real one on Oregon, not the branch on 18th). The “Uncle Mike’s” vegetable and red gravy sandwich is a close second.

More on topic — I’m not sure exactly what language it is that people speak at Geno’s (or Pat’s). But it sure as shit ain’t English.

28

rm 06.14.06 at 11:46 pm

jr, you got it; the stuff in the quotes is often a commonplace, and the marks mark that fact.

But I don’t think that’s all of it. These quotations marks are often used to highlight one word, and really are meant for emphasis, or for some kind of meta-emphasis. I heard on sports TV a few minutes ago, in reference to various failed plays by the Atlanta Braves, that “these are symbolic of the kinds of things that happen when you lose.” No, they are not; they ARE the kinds of things that happen when you lose. I think emphasis-quotes are doing something like what the prhase “are symbolic of” is doing in that example — an intensifier that doesn’t make the meaning more intense, but indicates that the meaning is to be applied universally.

So the question remains, what mental logic made this phenomenon first appear? I think there is sense in Vivian’s theory that it’s a re-use of {fingers make marks in air} scare quotes {fingers make more marks in air} as performed verbally with fingers or tone.

But I think that there is a more persuasive explanation from print media. Average readers, seeing a short phrase quoted in a printed sentence, as one might do to highlight the fact that “objective correlative” is not a phrase of one’s own invention, or that “the” rather than “an” is the word the author chose, do not always realize that those quotation marks are marking the fact that the words, even so few words as 2 or 1, come from another text. Such readers assume that the marks are there to highlight a key phrase that the author is proud of. So, that’s what they go on to use “” for.

And it drives me NUTS &%&$$^#

29

abb1 06.15.06 at 12:46 am

This is very unkosher, I must say.

30

Arturis 06.15.06 at 1:43 am

The pattern those quotes are following is the rule of “When you want to emphasize something, put quotes around it”, which I’ve seen only a handful of times in nonprofessionally made signs. Which is to say I’ve seen it a handful of times, which is way more than it deserves.

31

yonray 06.15.06 at 2:54 am

In Spanish you get the quotation marks used quite a bit. So perhaps the owner’s Hispanic. Now that would be interesting.

32

chris y 06.15.06 at 3:26 am

‘You may only speak “English” when in passenger areas’

What are you allowed to speak elsewhere?

33

abb1 06.15.06 at 4:27 am

In Sheckley’s surrealistic Mindswap there’s a hermit who provides black market mindswap services. He speaks in verse and refuses to understand customers unless they speak in verse too.

34

Chris Bertram 06.15.06 at 5:12 am

There used to be some theatre-pub in Islington (London) where they made you order in duodecimal coinage (abolished 1972) as recently as 1989. They may still do this.

35

Matt McGrattan 06.15.06 at 5:30 am

I’ve had people wilfully misunderstand me when I’ve been in Prague and speaking Czech. Outside of touristy areas I’ve come across a fair number of people who simply won’t, rather than can’t, understand you unless your grammar and pronunciation is near perfect.

On the other hand, when in Spain recently, I had no problems at all using Spanish and my Czech is much better than my Spanish.

36

robd 06.15.06 at 6:13 am

In Rotterdam we had some politicians who wanted everyone on the streets to speak Dutch only.
In one of the busiest ports of the world.
Idiots.

37

Steve 06.15.06 at 6:43 am

Shouldn’t that be:

Being “well educated” prohibits us from making fun of bigots. Dammit, I should have paid less attention at school.

And in this instance, the quotation marks are not misplaced.

Steve

38

Bill Tozier 06.15.06 at 6:53 am

I forget how far south America goes these days. When I was a child, it was Patagonia. I guess it’s different now?

Alas, I was a kid a long time ago, and can no longer wear my concert T-shirt from Laurie Anderson’s “Talk Normal” tour….

39

Brian 06.15.06 at 8:20 am

So there seems to be a fair bit of disagreement about whether the use of quotation marks as an emphasis is a common practice or not. As I said, if it turns out this is a wide-enough spread practice in salient groups, I’d say there is nothing wrong with it. It’s not in my dialect, but I speak (and write) Australian, not Atlantic Coast American, so I have no native speaker expertise here.

Having looked at the sign more closely, I think mjh is right about the ‘please’. It is there is small, I think cursive, red print in the bottom left corner. My mistake.

40

harry b 06.15.06 at 9:11 am

Being “well educated” prohibits us from making fun of bigots. Dammit, I should have paid less attention at school.

And in this instance, the quotation marks are not misplaced.

Dammit, should have gone to a “posh” school. Sorry not to live up to your expectations, Steve.

41

Jake 06.15.06 at 9:39 am

So there seems to be a fair bit of disagreement about whether the use of quotation marks as an emphasis is a common practice or not. As I said, if it turns out this is a wide-enough spread practice in salient groups, I’d say there is nothing wrong with it.

I’d say it’s an undeniably common practice when considering signs, menus, flyers, local ads, etc. However, if you can figure out how to search for it in LexisNexis I bet you wouldn’t find it common in newspaper or magazine articles. And, descriptivist though I am, I wouldn’t stand for it in a student paper.

I guess it depends upon which groups are salient. Signs, menus, etc. are also habitat to the use of apostrophes in plurals. I feel little inclination to call that an acceptable alternative spelling.

42

Uncle Kvetch 06.15.06 at 10:10 am

And the very best Philly sandwich isn’t even a cheesesteak at all. It’s the roast pork with broccoli rabe and sharp provolone from Tony Luke’s (the real one on Oregon, not the branch on 18th).

Indeed. And we now have an even-less-real Tony Luke’s here in NYC (currently closed for renovations, but we’re waiting patiently). The pork & rabe sandwich is heavenly. The cheesesteaks are damn good, too.

43

harry b 06.15.06 at 11:31 am

On the other hand, steve, does the fact that I didn’t go to a “proper” school exempt me from the bar on making fun of bigots?

44

washerdreyer 06.15.06 at 11:57 am

Maybe the propreitor of Geno’s is really into performance art and is trying to recreate the climactic scene of Do The Right Thing. It’s getting to be the right part of the year for that.

45

Bro. Bartleby 06.15.06 at 2:51 pm

Perhaps radio talk shows should allow callers to call in speaking any language, that should make for some interesting talk radio, at least more interesting than what normally fills the airwaves. Wonder what would happen if they announced, “Okay, the lines are open, and don’t forget, English only!”

46

Bro. Bartleby 06.15.06 at 2:56 pm

And by the way, how does a non-English speaking person read a sign printed in English? Should the signs be printed in Spanish (and every other language) so that you target the proper audience? If I were in China, and a sign printed in Chinese read, “When ordering, Speak Chinese!” …

47

Ginger Yellow 06.15.06 at 8:13 pm

Um, how have we had nearly 50 comments on the linguistic acceptability of emphasis quotation marks without anybody mentioning Brian’s random capitalisation or the lack of a full stop/period in the original sign?

48

Karen M 06.16.06 at 12:10 am

I’m a relative newbie here, having only lurked before, but I could not resist this post, as I am currently a suburban Philadelphia (Lansdowne) resident.

Because of a dietary restriction (wheat/dairy), it’s been a long time since I’ve even had a cheese steak, but I use to prefer Jim’s. Of course, I am not a native.

More recently, my adult daughter has become fond of Schmitters (sp?), which are found, as far as I know, only in Chestnut Hill.

I regret never getting to try one of those legendary pork sandwiches.

As for quotation marks, earlier tonight I came across this: Sincerity is the New Irony. I think it was somewhere on Salon. Maybe on VideoDog…

49

nick s 06.16.06 at 3:09 am

When “Seabrooks” took the “quotation marks” from its “bags” of “crisps”, I shed a tear.

50

beans 06.16.06 at 6:55 pm

Your first point reminds me of the doors in my previous university’s library labelled “fire exit”.

I always wondered whether they were actual fire exits, or mere “fire exits”.

(I never did find out).

51

Brian 06.18.06 at 7:23 pm

Here’s the thing about misapplied quotation marks: it’s not just a random mistake. It actually serves a purpose, albeit an unconscious one (usually) on the sign-scrivener’s part. In this case, as in many, the citational signal of the q. marks allow the restaurant to “distance” itself from the truly assholish imperative of the sentence. When ordering, speak english. — is much less palatable than: When ordering, “speak English” — as if they’re merely reminding us of a commonplace phrase that they didn’t invent, or of some corporate logo they’re not responsible for.

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