The British press are giving a lot of attention to the fact that “God Save the Queen” was not booed or whistled and how this shows (again, according to the British press) that Ireland has “grown up” and is now a civilized nation! I do hope that this patronising and hypocritical crap isn’t winding Irish people up too much.
Nope, the score was so impressive, and the rugby so beautiful, that no one’s bothered by a bit of patronising. And, in fairness, there was a lot of public discussion during the last week about how things would play out at Croke Park, given the particular atrocity that took place there during the war of independence. There is some satisfaction all round that we can acknowledge and honour the past and still enjoy an afternoon’s rout!
That kind of self-imposed crowd control is very well embedded in Irish rugby culture and nothing new — it probably has its origins in the class differentiation between GAA and Rugby players in the first place. At times it can be kind of a psychological weapon in itself: The “Munster Hush” at Thomond Park has unnerved more than one place kicker, as the entire crowd goes dead silent for the kick, instead of jeering.
Don’t assume that the “our little Free State is all grown up now” was just in the British papers. From the (Irish) Sunday Independent —
This was a day when Ireland grew up.
All the talk of protest and old GAA greats handing back their medals faded into insignificance.
It was a moment to savour for those who have fought for reconciliation, another important milestone in the growth of a nation.
This was more than a rugby match between Ireland and England, it was a defiant symbol of a new maturity and a confident battle cry that we will no longer be prisoners of the past.
I remember listening to Scrap Saturday (a satirical radio show) years ago on RTE when there was some prospect of a football match at Croke Park. Their version of the GAA representative was of course violently opposed and referred to the appalling prospect of a “ball full of poison English air” being booted around the holy ground. Frankly, I’d have been shocked if this attitude had been anything more than a tiny minority view at the weekend.
That kind of self-imposed crowd control is very well embedded in Irish rugby culture and nothing new—it probably has its origins in the class differentiation between GAA and Rugby players in the first place.
@12 (as I understand it, and I think Kieran is right): it is a self-conscious marker of class distinction: they are quiet because Irish rugby fans like to think they’re a cut above the bowsies who watch Gaelic, and above such uncouth, unsporting behavior. Rugby Union, in most places in Irl., as in most places in Eng-Scot-Wales, is a bourgeois sport.
Similar thing in the 80s and 90s – one of the reasons the Irish soccer fans behaved relatively peacefully was because it showed they were a cut above the English fans, who smashed stuff up and were nasty boorish racists. Gave a sort of warm internal glow of self-righteousness, maybe.
Or maybe a number of English fans actually are “nasty boorish racists†and “smash stuff upâ€. That reputation abroad didn’t arise out of nowhere.
Sure: there’s no “or” about it. Many of the English fans were like that. The Irish fans were making a conscious choice in response to that fact; it’s just that the choice was a cultural-semiotic one as well as a simple moral one. “Self-righteous” was too strong, though. “Mildly self-satisfied” is more like it.
A tad over the top on describing the emotions of the day, but today’s Irish Times describes the significance of this weekend’s match and some of the historical background for readers unfamiliar with it.
If rugby is a game for ruffians played by gentlemen, football (association) is a game for gentlemen played by ruffians, GAA (football) must be a game for ruffians, played by ruffians?
Thankfully, of course, hurling is a different class of a game altogether…
{ 21 comments }
P O'Neill 02.24.07 at 8:34 pm
still need help from Wales.
yabonn 02.24.07 at 11:40 pm
In related news, yay Italy!
Chris Bertram 02.24.07 at 11:42 pm
He may yet save _you_ of course (though it looks like a long shot).
EWI 02.24.07 at 11:49 pm
Makes up for the 14-0 of the last game played at Croker.
eszter 02.25.07 at 12:59 am
Post title is great.
Whatever the rest might mean.
I like that part lots.
Chris Bertram 02.25.07 at 12:48 pm
The British press are giving a lot of attention to the fact that “God Save the Queen” was not booed or whistled and how this shows (again, according to the British press) that Ireland has “grown up” and is now a civilized nation! I do hope that this patronising and hypocritical crap isn’t winding Irish people up too much.
Maria 02.25.07 at 2:03 pm
Nope, the score was so impressive, and the rugby so beautiful, that no one’s bothered by a bit of patronising. And, in fairness, there was a lot of public discussion during the last week about how things would play out at Croke Park, given the particular atrocity that took place there during the war of independence. There is some satisfaction all round that we can acknowledge and honour the past and still enjoy an afternoon’s rout!
Kieran Healy 02.25.07 at 2:47 pm
That kind of self-imposed crowd control is very well embedded in Irish rugby culture and nothing new — it probably has its origins in the class differentiation between GAA and Rugby players in the first place. At times it can be kind of a psychological weapon in itself: The “Munster Hush” at Thomond Park has unnerved more than one place kicker, as the entire crowd goes dead silent for the kick, instead of jeering.
tom s. 02.25.07 at 3:41 pm
What is this haiku?
Should you not mark the event
with a Limerick?
P O'Neill 02.25.07 at 3:53 pm
Don’t assume that the “our little Free State is all grown up now” was just in the British papers. From the (Irish) Sunday Independent —
This was a day when Ireland grew up.
All the talk of protest and old GAA greats handing back their medals faded into insignificance.
It was a moment to savour for those who have fought for reconciliation, another important milestone in the growth of a nation.
This was more than a rugby match between Ireland and England, it was a defiant symbol of a new maturity and a confident battle cry that we will no longer be prisoners of the past.
Kieran Healy 02.25.07 at 3:58 pm
I remember listening to Scrap Saturday (a satirical radio show) years ago on RTE when there was some prospect of a football match at Croke Park. Their version of the GAA representative was of course violently opposed and referred to the appalling prospect of a “ball full of poison English air” being booted around the holy ground. Frankly, I’d have been shocked if this attitude had been anything more than a tiny minority view at the weekend.
EWI 02.25.07 at 10:07 pm
That kind of self-imposed crowd control is very well embedded in Irish rugby culture and nothing new—it probably has its origins in the class differentiation between GAA and Rugby players in the first place.
Ahem?
astrongmaybe 02.25.07 at 11:28 pm
@12 (as I understand it, and I think Kieran is right): it is a self-conscious marker of class distinction: they are quiet because Irish rugby fans like to think they’re a cut above the bowsies who watch Gaelic, and above such uncouth, unsporting behavior. Rugby Union, in most places in Irl., as in most places in Eng-Scot-Wales, is a bourgeois sport.
Similar thing in the 80s and 90s – one of the reasons the Irish soccer fans behaved relatively peacefully was because it showed they were a cut above the English fans, who smashed stuff up and were nasty boorish racists. Gave a sort of warm internal glow of self-righteousness, maybe.
EWI 02.26.07 at 12:05 am
Gave a sort of warm internal glow of self-righteousness, maybe.
Or maybe a number of English fans actually are “nasty boorish racists” and “smash stuff up”. That reputation abroad didn’t arise out of nowhere.
Andrew John 02.26.07 at 1:49 am
[Chris] Won’t Mother England be surprised?
Kieran Healy 02.26.07 at 3:11 am
they are quiet because Irish rugby fans like to think they’re a cut above the bowsies who watch Gaelic
Yeah, that’s what I meant, more or less.
It’s also true that Irish football fans consciously cultivated an image in opposition to the bad reputation of their English counterparts.
astrongmaybe 02.26.07 at 7:24 am
Or maybe a number of English fans actually are “nasty boorish racists†and “smash stuff upâ€. That reputation abroad didn’t arise out of nowhere.
Sure: there’s no “or” about it. Many of the English fans were like that. The Irish fans were making a conscious choice in response to that fact; it’s just that the choice was a cultural-semiotic one as well as a simple moral one. “Self-righteous” was too strong, though. “Mildly self-satisfied” is more like it.
Maria 02.26.07 at 9:15 am
A tad over the top on describing the emotions of the day, but today’s Irish Times describes the significance of this weekend’s match and some of the historical background for readers unfamiliar with it.
jay bee 02.26.07 at 2:32 pm
If rugby is a game for ruffians played by gentlemen, football (association) is a game for gentlemen played by ruffians, GAA (football) must be a game for ruffians, played by ruffians?
Thankfully, of course, hurling is a different class of a game altogether…
ejh 02.27.07 at 4:26 pm
Rugby league might be played by gentlemen. Rugby union is played by thugs who stamp on people’s heads in the ruck.
Thom Brooks 02.28.07 at 10:16 am
Surely, Ireland is the team to beat now. Highly impressive: they keep getting better!
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