My understanding is that while Hugo Boss’s factories did, indeed, produce Nazi uniforms, Boss did not design any Nazi uniforms. Which is not at all to let Boss himself off the hook: he was, apparently an NSDAP member before the Nazi rise to power, joining up in 1931. But he and his company were contracted to produce uniforms. He doesn’t deserve credit (or blame) for their design.
Growing up in central Massachusetts, there was a common (sub)urban legend that the SS uniforms were modeled off of those used by the MA state police. I have never found any solid evidence to this effect, however there is a part in The Departed that seems to be making the same reference
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ4mVtNEBio)
I know you’re not supposed to dissect comedy, but this sketch is pretty naive. Check out wikipedia’s “skull and crossbones (military)” article for about 100 examples of non-Nazi military insignia containing skulls, including a lot belonging to the “goodies”.
On a tangential note, I have recently discovered a current german military ceremony that feels a bit off key, I’d even say somewhat disturbing : the “Grosser Zapfenstreich”.
While I don’t doubt that every single element has been carefully sourced from pre-nazi, prussian or whatever traditions, I can’t help to think that those helmets are a tad too polished, those coats a bit too dark, the torches too bright in the night, and more eagles than necessary hang from poles and drums.
Post-WWII west german uniforms tended to be quite US-like (or even straight US issue stuff at the beginning). US military fashion has always carried a certain “drafted civilian” innuendo that is the direct opposite of the excessive coolness of german tradition.
I remember Christmas shopping many years ago, say around the turn of the millennium, and noting that black leather trenchcoats were deeply discounted, clearly not selling. To me they shrieked “Gestapo” and “What were they thinking? Didn’t they see the old movies?”
You wound me, bad Jim. I have a beautiful formfitting black leather coat that comes almost all the way down to the ground, and buttons tightly up the front with a sort of Mao-jacket top. In the States I wear it with knee-high black leather boots, and it is only the limitations of equatorial weather that are preventing me from doing so this very moment. I assure you that I don’t look the least like a Gestapo member or anything. Maybe I’m aiming for sexy Soviet sniper.
Actually related to the clip, I converted my brother away from pure moral relativism, when he was 20, in a four-hour argument (one of a hundred, but this was the important one, clearly) that relied in part on the fact that the Waffen SS can’t possibly have thought they were doing the right thing, or they never would have gone around in black uniforms accented with silver and skulls. That’s just not the uniform of people who believe that they are morally right and their enemies deluded. That’s the uniform of people who believe they can take over the world and remake it in whatever fashion they wish, and that their enemies’ appeals to morality are invitations to self-hobbling weakness, and that they do know what they are doing is wrong, but they are not the sort of people who care about such niceties, being involved in a grander project. Naturally, it didn’t really stand out in my mind since we had this argument 1,000 times, and were never entirely mmmm sober in any fashion, and since I was advocating Platonic realism of the Form of the Good the whole time just because, you know, because. (No, I’m secretly a Platonist, you can ask John.) Anyway, I had forgotten the whole thing until years later when it came up and my brother was shocked that I had forgotten the life-changing discussion we had had, which turned him aside from Thrasymachus’ path and onto the path of Right. I was privately like, shit, that worked, for real? Awesome! But, uh, huh.
SoU@5, don’t know about MA police (well, yes, I do — I have been pulled over once or twice in our fair commonwealth), but your story recalls for me: Traveling in the midwest in the early-mid 1970’s with my boyfriend, I received this report from him of a men’s bathroom graffito at an Ohio rest stop: ” I just sat on the pooper and gave birth to an Ohio State trooper.” (As U of Michigan youngin’s, we took particular pleasure in this.)
I’m sorry I missed the sales on black leather trenchcoats, although it’s hard to think of when I would wear one. I did buy a Yugoslavian Army woolen cloak, which is fun to wear from time to time. It fits very nicely, although it’s a bit warm for most of the year.
For me the strongest association I have with black leather trenchcoats is the film The Third Man, and also some books I read about the postwar black market. Just the thing to wear when driving a “borrowed” Jeep from Germany down to Yugoslavia for the weekend to bring back a load of bootleg cigarettes, chocolate and forged ration coupons.
The thing that I notice most in totalitarian uniforms is the height of the caps. Just look at the ones at the top of the page and compare them to what a British officer wore. And the Russians certainly noticed this, because the height of officers’ caps in the USSR seemed to get taller and taller in the postwar period. Take a look at this one, for example. Or this spiffy KGB number.
Or check out the photo in this article. Who’s winning the Battle of the Hats?
I have to admit that I did soon thereafter buy my mother a very nice mid-length black leather coat, which she wore for years to formal occasions; in fact I used black shoe polish with some success to disguise the affronts fortune inflicted.
Southern California’s surprisingly cool in the evening, at least in the concert season, and leather can be actually be practical.
1970 and 1971 I wore a long woolen coat, like a peacoat, but reaching to the knees, navy blue, either Navy or Air Force issue. During those two winters it was actually comfortable, but never before or since.
Historically, my problem with black clothing was due mainly to living with dogs. Now I can get away with it, but back then I was always entertainingly striated, festooned, bedecked, stippled. It’s okay that dogs can sniff you out, but humans shouldn’t get you at a glance.
I still have a black leather trenchcoat from the Eighties. I bought it because I thought it made me look like Rutger Hauer in Blade Runner and cyberpunk was just becoming cool.
It cost me a quarter of my student grant but it has lasted well. I’ve worn it off and on since then – they’re built to last – and it has come in and out of fashion because of films like The Matrix and it’s sequels.
I remember Christmas shopping many years ago, say around the turn of the millennium, and noting that black leather trenchcoats were deeply discounted, clearly not selling.
Was it around the time of Columbine? Because there was a massive moral panic about trenchcoats which presumably had an impact on sales.
The thing that I notice most in totalitarian uniforms is the height of the caps. Just look at the ones at the top of the page and compare them to what a British officer wore.
Unless he’s a Guards officer and has a foot-tall bearskin on, of course. Big hats were definitely a thing when it was more important to look big and tall and scare the enemy than it was to be able to hide behind a bush without your hat showing over the top. Before the Guards took the bearskins off Napoleon’s Imperial Guard, they wore shakoes.
US military fashion has always carried a certain “drafted civilian†innuendo
Well, not always. The US Civil War was a bit of an exception, especially the 5th NY Volunteer Infantry:
The uniform consisted of a dark blue zouave jacket with red trimming, a dark blue zouave vest with red trimming, a red zouave sash with sky blue trimming, extremely baggy red pantaloons, a red fez with a yellow tassel, white gaiters, and leather jamberies
.
I don’t think that a nation whose young men go to war in red fezes, sky blue sashes and MC Hammer trousers can be absolved by the Fashion RMPs.
And the link in 9 is just downright disturbing. “Hang on a moment, if we do this, is there a chance that we might look like Nazis?” is a question that should actually form part of the formal orders process for the Bundeswehr. I’d put it towards the end.
Prelims – ground, weather
Situation – enemy forces
Situation – friendly forces
Mission
Execution – concept of ops
Execution in detail and subunit taskings
Combat service and support – engineers
-artillery
-transport
-medical
-prisoners and civilians
Command and control
– signals
– chain of command
– coordinating measures and boundaries
Questions
Hang on a moment, if we do this, is there a chance that we might look like Nazis?
Synchronise watches
When I was in high school it was high (ha!) fashion for hippies to wear surplus outerwear. I had a olive drab trench coat, US army issue, with a Zig-Zag Man patch on the shoulder. Loved that coat, wore it for years.
Belle, I want to meet your family some day. If you wore the coat and boots, it’d be a bonus.
And the link in 9 is just downright disturbing. “Hang on a moment, if we do this, is there a chance that we might look like Nazis?â€
Thanks, I was beginning to think it was only me.
I always had this idea that on top of the written constitutional limitations about the german military there was this implicit rule that might have read like: “Modern german soldiers must look a bit goofy”. That video breaks that rule in many ways.
There’s another video out there where a german military band performs in the Red Square and they are in considerably less conspicuous attire.
Some time in about 1988 (in the UK) I was wearing my standard-issue crusty ex-Bundeswehr green parka, when a German acquaintance pointed out to me that he’d gone to quite a lot of trouble to avoid conscription, and could I stop reminding him of the army, please? So I cut off the flags.
I have a surplus Canadian army greatcoat that’s really kinda too big for me but so warm and blue and fun! When I wear it my partner calls me “Colonel Sumana”. I don’t think anyone has ever recognized it as *Canadian* specifically; the label’s on the inside.
Graffito in the men’s room of the University of Michigan Union, circa 1973:
“Descartes: to exist is to be.
Sartre: to exist is to do.
Sinatra: do be do be do…“
a German acquaintance pointed out to me that he’d gone to quite a lot of trouble to avoid conscription, and could I stop reminding him of the army, please?
“I mentioned it once. I think I got away with it.”
{ 30 comments }
Chris Bertram 09.17.13 at 3:59 pm
Blocked by c4 in the UK, but here’s the stage version:
http://youtu.be/aLJUocaDYw0
MPAVictoria 09.17.13 at 4:01 pm
God dammit. I was just about to post that.
Richard J 09.17.13 at 4:39 pm
The blocked by C4 thing is odd, as it was a BBC show. Blowback from one of their interminable clip shows?
Ben Alpers 09.17.13 at 7:23 pm
My understanding is that while Hugo Boss’s factories did, indeed, produce Nazi uniforms, Boss did not design any Nazi uniforms. Which is not at all to let Boss himself off the hook: he was, apparently an NSDAP member before the Nazi rise to power, joining up in 1931. But he and his company were contracted to produce uniforms. He doesn’t deserve credit (or blame) for their design.
SoU 09.17.13 at 8:05 pm
Growing up in central Massachusetts, there was a common (sub)urban legend that the SS uniforms were modeled off of those used by the MA state police. I have never found any solid evidence to this effect, however there is a part in The Departed that seems to be making the same reference
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ4mVtNEBio)
godoggo 09.17.13 at 8:26 pm
Whoever designed the uniforms did a good job. They looked cool.
Chris Grant 09.17.13 at 9:20 pm
I know you’re not supposed to dissect comedy, but this sketch is pretty naive. Check out wikipedia’s “skull and crossbones (military)” article for about 100 examples of non-Nazi military insignia containing skulls, including a lot belonging to the “goodies”.
Andrew Smith 09.17.13 at 9:36 pm
One of my favourite shows. peep show’s great as well.
Tol Ondro 09.17.13 at 9:57 pm
On a tangential note, I have recently discovered a current german military ceremony that feels a bit off key, I’d even say somewhat disturbing : the “Grosser Zapfenstreich”.
While I don’t doubt that every single element has been carefully sourced from pre-nazi, prussian or whatever traditions, I can’t help to think that those helmets are a tad too polished, those coats a bit too dark, the torches too bright in the night, and more eagles than necessary hang from poles and drums.
Post-WWII west german uniforms tended to be quite US-like (or even straight US issue stuff at the beginning). US military fashion has always carried a certain “drafted civilian” innuendo that is the direct opposite of the excessive coolness of german tradition.
These guys seem to be enjoying themselves a tad too much: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQjctLWSF7g
Mao Cheng Ji 09.18.13 at 1:50 am
Mexicans love sculls. And skeletons. They give calaveras de azucar to their children.
bianca steele 09.18.13 at 2:53 am
Children should not be going out in sculls, especially not sugar ones.
bad Jim 09.18.13 at 4:18 am
I remember Christmas shopping many years ago, say around the turn of the millennium, and noting that black leather trenchcoats were deeply discounted, clearly not selling. To me they shrieked “Gestapo” and “What were they thinking? Didn’t they see the old movies?”
Belle Waring 09.18.13 at 5:27 am
You wound me, bad Jim. I have a beautiful formfitting black leather coat that comes almost all the way down to the ground, and buttons tightly up the front with a sort of Mao-jacket top. In the States I wear it with knee-high black leather boots, and it is only the limitations of equatorial weather that are preventing me from doing so this very moment. I assure you that I don’t look the least like a Gestapo member or anything. Maybe I’m aiming for sexy Soviet sniper.
Actually related to the clip, I converted my brother away from pure moral relativism, when he was 20, in a four-hour argument (one of a hundred, but this was the important one, clearly) that relied in part on the fact that the Waffen SS can’t possibly have thought they were doing the right thing, or they never would have gone around in black uniforms accented with silver and skulls. That’s just not the uniform of people who believe that they are morally right and their enemies deluded. That’s the uniform of people who believe they can take over the world and remake it in whatever fashion they wish, and that their enemies’ appeals to morality are invitations to self-hobbling weakness, and that they do know what they are doing is wrong, but they are not the sort of people who care about such niceties, being involved in a grander project. Naturally, it didn’t really stand out in my mind since we had this argument 1,000 times, and were never entirely mmmm sober in any fashion, and since I was advocating Platonic realism of the Form of the Good the whole time just because, you know, because. (No, I’m secretly a Platonist, you can ask John.) Anyway, I had forgotten the whole thing until years later when it came up and my brother was shocked that I had forgotten the life-changing discussion we had had, which turned him aside from Thrasymachus’ path and onto the path of Right. I was privately like, shit, that worked, for real? Awesome! But, uh, huh.
Meredith 09.18.13 at 5:47 am
SoU@5, don’t know about MA police (well, yes, I do — I have been pulled over once or twice in our fair commonwealth), but your story recalls for me: Traveling in the midwest in the early-mid 1970’s with my boyfriend, I received this report from him of a men’s bathroom graffito at an Ohio rest stop: ” I just sat on the pooper and gave birth to an Ohio State trooper.” (As U of Michigan youngin’s, we took particular pleasure in this.)
maidhc 09.18.13 at 6:04 am
I’m sorry I missed the sales on black leather trenchcoats, although it’s hard to think of when I would wear one. I did buy a Yugoslavian Army woolen cloak, which is fun to wear from time to time. It fits very nicely, although it’s a bit warm for most of the year.
For me the strongest association I have with black leather trenchcoats is the film The Third Man, and also some books I read about the postwar black market. Just the thing to wear when driving a “borrowed” Jeep from Germany down to Yugoslavia for the weekend to bring back a load of bootleg cigarettes, chocolate and forged ration coupons.
The thing that I notice most in totalitarian uniforms is the height of the caps. Just look at the ones at the top of the page and compare them to what a British officer wore. And the Russians certainly noticed this, because the height of officers’ caps in the USSR seemed to get taller and taller in the postwar period. Take a look at this one, for example. Or this spiffy KGB number.
Or check out the photo in this article. Who’s winning the Battle of the Hats?
bad Jim 09.18.13 at 6:36 am
I have to admit that I did soon thereafter buy my mother a very nice mid-length black leather coat, which she wore for years to formal occasions; in fact I used black shoe polish with some success to disguise the affronts fortune inflicted.
Southern California’s surprisingly cool in the evening, at least in the concert season, and leather can be actually be practical.
bad Jim 09.18.13 at 6:54 am
1970 and 1971 I wore a long woolen coat, like a peacoat, but reaching to the knees, navy blue, either Navy or Air Force issue. During those two winters it was actually comfortable, but never before or since.
Historically, my problem with black clothing was due mainly to living with dogs. Now I can get away with it, but back then I was always entertainingly striated, festooned, bedecked, stippled. It’s okay that dogs can sniff you out, but humans shouldn’t get you at a glance.
Collin Street 09.18.13 at 7:17 am
The best-dressed army loses.
[where “best-dressed” is based on a comparison of best-looking/snappiest uniforms].
Shatterface 09.18.13 at 9:31 am
I still have a black leather trenchcoat from the Eighties. I bought it because I thought it made me look like Rutger Hauer in Blade Runner and cyberpunk was just becoming cool.
It cost me a quarter of my student grant but it has lasted well. I’ve worn it off and on since then – they’re built to last – and it has come in and out of fashion because of films like The Matrix and it’s sequels.
Cian 09.18.13 at 12:10 pm
I remember Christmas shopping many years ago, say around the turn of the millennium, and noting that black leather trenchcoats were deeply discounted, clearly not selling.
Was it around the time of Columbine? Because there was a massive moral panic about trenchcoats which presumably had an impact on sales.
ajay 09.18.13 at 12:24 pm
The thing that I notice most in totalitarian uniforms is the height of the caps. Just look at the ones at the top of the page and compare them to what a British officer wore.
Unless he’s a Guards officer and has a foot-tall bearskin on, of course. Big hats were definitely a thing when it was more important to look big and tall and scare the enemy than it was to be able to hide behind a bush without your hat showing over the top. Before the Guards took the bearskins off Napoleon’s Imperial Guard, they wore shakoes.
US military fashion has always carried a certain “drafted civilian†innuendo
Well, not always. The US Civil War was a bit of an exception, especially the 5th NY Volunteer Infantry:
.
I don’t think that a nation whose young men go to war in red fezes, sky blue sashes and MC Hammer trousers can be absolved by the Fashion RMPs.
ajay 09.18.13 at 12:30 pm
And the link in 9 is just downright disturbing. “Hang on a moment, if we do this, is there a chance that we might look like Nazis?” is a question that should actually form part of the formal orders process for the Bundeswehr. I’d put it towards the end.
Prelims – ground, weather
Situation – enemy forces
Situation – friendly forces
Mission
Execution – concept of ops
Execution in detail and subunit taskings
Combat service and support – engineers
-artillery
-transport
-medical
-prisoners and civilians
Command and control
– signals
– chain of command
– coordinating measures and boundaries
Questions
Hang on a moment, if we do this, is there a chance that we might look like Nazis?
Synchronise watches
PatrickinIowa 09.18.13 at 12:39 pm
When I was in high school it was high (ha!) fashion for hippies to wear surplus outerwear. I had a olive drab trench coat, US army issue, with a Zig-Zag Man patch on the shoulder. Loved that coat, wore it for years.
Belle, I want to meet your family some day. If you wore the coat and boots, it’d be a bonus.
And, “Click.” I was marveling at the size of North Korean generals’ hats a couple of weeks ago. Now I have an account of why they are the way they are: http://civilwartalk.com/threads/north-korean-generals-most-decorated-in-history.82913/.
Tol Ondro 09.18.13 at 3:27 pm
And the link in 9 is just downright disturbing. “Hang on a moment, if we do this, is there a chance that we might look like Nazis?â€
Thanks, I was beginning to think it was only me.
I always had this idea that on top of the written constitutional limitations about the german military there was this implicit rule that might have read like: “Modern german soldiers must look a bit goofy”. That video breaks that rule in many ways.
There’s another video out there where a german military band performs in the Red Square and they are in considerably less conspicuous attire.
Chris Williams 09.18.13 at 5:45 pm
Some time in about 1988 (in the UK) I was wearing my standard-issue crusty ex-Bundeswehr green parka, when a German acquaintance pointed out to me that he’d gone to quite a lot of trouble to avoid conscription, and could I stop reminding him of the army, please? So I cut off the flags.
Barry Freed 09.18.13 at 5:47 pm
Some time in about 1988 (in the UK) I was wearing my standard-issue crusty ex-Bundeswehr green parka…
They really flooded the market with those things, didn’t they? I had one around that time in the US.
Peter Hovde 09.18.13 at 6:29 pm
A guy at a sausage stand in Salzburg nicknamed me “Daywalker” for my black leather trench. “Hello, Mr. Daywalker!”
Sumana Harihareswara 09.18.13 at 9:17 pm
I have a surplus Canadian army greatcoat that’s really kinda too big for me but so warm and blue and fun! When I wear it my partner calls me “Colonel Sumana”. I don’t think anyone has ever recognized it as *Canadian* specifically; the label’s on the inside.
garymar 09.19.13 at 2:08 am
Graffito in the men’s room of the University of Michigan Union, circa 1973:
“Descartes: to exist is to be.
Sartre: to exist is to do.
Sinatra: do be do be do…“
ajay 09.19.13 at 9:45 am
a German acquaintance pointed out to me that he’d gone to quite a lot of trouble to avoid conscription, and could I stop reminding him of the army, please?
“I mentioned it once. I think I got away with it.”
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