I’m in the UK now, having spent the last (lovely) six weeks in France, an EU member-state with a much more functional government than we have. When we left for France in mid-June, it was on the UK government’s “amber list” and had just started admitting visitors from the UK with proof of full vaccination and a negative COVID test. To get such a test in the UK we had to pay £80 to a private provider. We also had to pay for additional travel insurance to travel to a country that the UK’s Foreign and Commonwealth Office advises against travel to, the advice having rendered our existing travel insurance inapplicable. All went swimmingly on the journey out apart from a 30-second hiccup when a French border guard thought a different set of rules applied to us, requiring urgent reasons for travel, but a colleague set him right.
Our plan had been to stay in France until the UK government moved it to an easier category not requiring quarantine. But the opposite happened. Ostensibly because of a surge in the Beta variant in France, the UK moved the country to an enhanced “amber plus” category, requiring 10 day quarantine even for the fully vaccinated. This measure against France was quite inexplicable, since there were other European countries with higher incidences of Beta, and becauce the French cases were actually overwhelmingly on French islands in the Indian Ocean. Perhaps there were other, more political, reasons behind the change, or perhaps the British government is bad at geography but couldn’t lose face by backing down once the error had been pointed out? Who knows? Rumour has it that France will be taken out of “amber plus” this week, and that the fully-vaccinated will be allowed quarantine-free admission to the UK from France this week, as visitors from the US and most of the EU are. That’s no good to us. (And note this is at a moment when nearly all internal restrictions have been lifted in the UK.)
To return, we had to fill out a “Passenger Locator Form” giving details of where we would be quarantining (at home), get a negative COVID test in France, and then book with a private provider in the UK for tests on days 2 and 8 of quarantine. We also had the option of an additional test to release from quarantine on day 5, which we have taken. The French test cost €25, the UK “package” cost £83, with an additional £43 for the early release scheme. (The private providers making these windfall profits may or may not be personal friends of senior Conservatives.)
Quarantine involves, obviously, sitting around at home. But “NHS Test and Trace” (actually provide provider Serco) has a contract to check up on you and to tell you what you may or may not do. On Day 1 we received a call. “I am standing outside your house, why are you not answering the door?” The answer was that the checker was standing outside the wrong house. Eventually he found us and asked for ID. He wasn’t able to tell us what power he has to ask for ID. We also each get a phone call from Serco every day (keep your mobile by you at all times). The person, reading from a script, asks us if we intend to abide by the law. Well, what would a non-law-abiding person say? When questioned about what the rules are, though, they aren’t very good at clarifying and sometime say things that are obviously false (asserting that there could be a financial penalty for not taking the voluntary day 5 test).
Given that the Serco man had not found the house, we were very anxious that our test kits would not be delivered to the right place by the private courier company with the contract, particularly since they have misdelivered ordinary packages in the past. But the courier came through, so yesterday we self-administered our Day 2 tests, sticking swabs down throats and up noses etc (French tests seem to be nose-only, incidentally). I was permitted to leave the house to deliver the test kits to a “drop box” to be flown to Northern Ireland. The drop box depicted on the company website was a shiny metal affair, but the reality was a man seated next to large cardboard boxes overflowing with test kits. Today we got the results, confirming that our COVID negative status is unchanged since last Friday’s visit to a French pharmacy! So, on to a few more days of sitting around and waiting for Serco to call.
(While away, we also acquired some experience of the French health system. A trip to “Urgences” was needed (British A&E, American ER). Seen within a few minutes and charged €30 for an x-ray (nothing broken) and then prescribed painkillers (and related meds) that came in at €10 for 3 boxes of tablets. In the UK you’d probably have waited at least 3 hours to be seen and the non-exempt would have been charged more in “prescription charges”. In the US, well …. )
Addendum/update: Yesterday the UK moved France to the amber category, so that from next Sunday morning, fully-vaxxed travelers will no longer need to quarantine. The odd effect of this is that people who arrived a week earlier (unless they’ve paid extra for test-to-release) will still be in quarantine for half a week when then new people are free to roam. The other thing I wanted to add to the above is the sense of discomfort I get from receiving the daily checking phone call together with the Serco employee’s demand that I assert my willingness to obey the law. I realise that the assumption that your government doesn’t trust you and that you may well be up to no good is something that less privileged citizens have to deal with all the time, but when it happens to you it is discombobulating.
{ 25 comments }
Tim Worstall 08.04.21 at 4:46 pm
“Seen within a few minutes and charged €30 for an x-ray (nothing broken) and then prescribed painkillers (and related meds) that came in at €10 for 3 boxes of tablets. In the UK you’d probably have waited at least 3 hours to be seen and the non-exempt would have been charged more in “prescription chargesâ€.”
Careful there, careful. You’re getting close to the idea that a social insurance scheme rather than tax paid health care system might be better. Even, one with proper internal competition rather than a state monopoly. Tsk, how could you denigrate the NHS so?
Chris Bertram 08.04.21 at 6:40 pm
@Tim Worstall I wouldn’t deduce from the fact that the French system currently works better than the British one that a “French-style” system introduced by our current British political leaders as an alternative to the NHS would work better than the NHS does. In fact there are few, in fact probably no, areas of policy where I would trust Johnson and his cronies to embark on a “reform” and not come up with institutions functioning worse than when they started.
marcel proust 08.05.21 at 1:24 am
“In fact there are few, in fact probably no, areas of policy where I would trust Johnson and his cronies to embark on a “reform†and not come up with institutions functioning worse than when they started.”
“functioning worse” from whose perspective? I imagine that what you see depends on where you stand. If you stand near “senior Conservatives”, well then, you may well think that institutions which Johnson and his cronies have reformed actually work better, no?
Chris Bertram 08.05.21 at 7:10 am
@marcel proust Well no. At least, I take it that in a “democracy” the standard according to which an institution is working better or worse has to be one that is public acknowledgeable and typically involves providing some good subject to a cost constraint. So while politicians might indeed differ somewhat about those things, it can never be an acceptable criterion of well-functioning for a public institution that it provide short term opportunities for wealth extraction by rich people with connections to the governing party.
Tim Worstall 08.05.21 at 8:13 am
“In fact there are few, in fact probably no, areas of policy where I would trust Johnson and his cronies to embark on a “reform†and not come up with institutions functioning worse than when they started.”
The only difference between us on this point is that I tend – tend – to think that true of all politicians.
I am indeed a minarchist neoliberal etc. The above being why…..
J-D 08.05.21 at 8:43 am
Aristotle wrote (in his Politics) that ‘there are cities in which they [the oligarchs] swear, “I will be an enemy to the people, and will devise all the harm against them which I canâ€â€˜. Bertrand Russell (in his History Of Western Philosophy) cites this and comments, ‘Nowadays, reactionaries are not so frank.’
In Margaret Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale there is this passage involving The Commander and Offred: ‘You can’t make an omelette without breaking eggs, is what he says. We thought we could do better. Better? I say, in a small voice. How can he think this is better? Better never means better for everyone, he says. It always means worse, for some.’
Matt 08.05.21 at 9:22 am
On Day 1 we received a call. “I am standing outside your house, why are you not answering the door?†The answer was that the checker was standing outside the wrong house.
Many years back a friend of mine, a former colleague from the Peace Corps, was undergoing a background check for a job at the US State Department (or maybe the DOJ – I don’t remember for sure now.) I was a reference, so an FBI agent was supposed to come interview me about her. I gave him my address and we made an appointment. I was surprised when he didn’t show up at the appointed time. After about 15 minutes I got a phone call asking where I was. I said I was at home waiting for him. He claimed that he was where my apartment should be, but there wasn’t such a house number (or something like that.) I told him the address again, he said he was there and couldn’t find it, but I assured him I was in fact at home. It turned out he was on 13th St., not 12th st. where he should have been. I was no longer surprised that the US government hadn’t found Bi Laden (this was in mid 2002.) After all, I’d given them my address, and the FBI still couldn’t find me. And, I started to have more doubt about essential government activities that required getting to the right house with certainty.
MFB 08.05.21 at 10:44 am
If you test negative for the disease, why are you obliged to quarantine, since quarantine is surely something for untested people in case symptoms show up? And besides, the sooner “herd immunity” is reached, surely the happier Comrade Boris will be?
I remember our radio talking about this a week or so ago, and the radio interviewer (a right-winger like all SABC interviewers) nevertheless asked whether it really made sense to impose restrictions on France when Britain was also experiencing a surge in the disease. To which the interviewee (a frothing extremist right-winger like almost all SABC interviewee) replied that obviously those who were not privy to the knowledge and wisdom of the Johnson administration were not entitled to criticise its wise and well-considered decisions.
It almost made me want to go out and loot and burn a shopping-mall, but someone’s already done that.
nastywoman 08.05.21 at 11:45 am
traveling quite a lot in these adventurous times you learn a lot about the (strange) different ways different people and different countries deal with the pandemic –
(which completely changed our lives – especially for everybody who needs to travel a lot in order to earn her of his living)
And –
sooo
in conclusion – you really learn that ‘Right-Wing Racist Science Deniers are the ABSOLUT worst in dealing with travelling in a Pandemic –
Followed closely by ‘trump’
(the worlds new word for: ‘Utmost Stupid’)
Tm 08.05.21 at 11:59 am
I‘m hoping to be able to visit a dear friend in the UK this fall. Still hoping.
MFB: the reason is that while a positive PCR test is reliable, they have a significant false negative rate. Especially in the early days, an asymptomatic infection may be hard to detect. That’s why quarantine rules, not just in the UK, usually apply despite a negative test.
Btw there is a new comprehensive international study out on COVID mortality and excess mortality. It seems very well done and the data presentation is excellent. The results aren’t new or surprising but somewhat clarifying. No paywall.
Tracking excess mortality across countries during the COVID-19 pandemic with the World Mortality Dataset
https://elifesciences.org/articles/69336
J-D 08.05.21 at 11:59 am
It’s not clear whether this is supposed to be a defence. It isn’t one.
The idea that no politician has ever done anything good is indefensible.
Tm 08.05.21 at 12:03 pm
Matt: how many people in the US are harmed because the police mix up the address?
Tim Worstall 08.05.21 at 2:02 pm
“The idea that no politician has ever done anything good is indefensible.”
You’ll note that’s not actually what I said. Or perhaps I should ask that you do note that I said “tend – tend – to think”, putting it twice so that it was clear.
As to the expanded version, there are clearly some things which must be done. There is a smaller set among those things which must be done which only government is able to do. There is also a set of things which government is able to do. My minarchy runs with the idea that government should do only those things which must be done, which can only be done by government, and which government is also capable of doing.
Of course, that leaves quite a lot of room over “must”, “capable” and “only” definitions.
As to why restrict it so much that’s where that shared belief is. It might be just when one lot, as CB is saying, is trying to do something or that more cynical (I prefer “realist”) belief of mine that it’s innate to politics and politicians. It’s just unlikely that this human process is going to make things, do things, better.
I would point out that I’ve a certain amount of experience here. I’ve written good chunks of an election manifesto, stood for election (no, didn’t win, no one’s that mad, although my party came second that election cycle and won the next one), run political party PR over an election cycle. Even, wearing a slightly different hat, had a specific policy enacted. That tripling of the personal allowance for income tax in the UK was me plus a couple of folks at the CPS (a London think tank allied with the ASI where I am). Me from original diagnosis, through rhetorical tropes to convincing the individuals who actually enacted it.
After which reveal the point should be obvious. If the structure of politics means that loons like me get to determine (OK, significantly influence) the base taxation policies of an entire nation then politics as a societal management method might not be all it’s generally cracked up to be.
nastywoman 08.05.21 at 3:55 pm
and there is something troubling me? –
As when I wrote: ‘you really learn that ‘Right-Wing Racist Science Deniers are the ABSOLUT worst in dealing with travelling in a Pandemic’ – I had thought about the time we landed in May in Miami – (Masks On)
But already checking in (Masks On) nobody in our hotel in SOBE wanted to see our PCR test anymore – and the night and the next day got so completely out of hand and masks – that we decided to leave the PartyZone and move to a lesser: I don’t wear no f… mask place.
Which reminded US that another Crazy and Stupid Right-Winger and Science Denier -(like Trump) was running the show – without any idea of any ‘Quarantine’?
Sumana Harihareswara 08.05.21 at 4:12 pm
a negative COVID test. To get such a test in the UK we had to pay £80 to a private provider.
The French test cost €25
Wow! That seems very expensive and that makes me unhappy about how various governments are disincentivizing getting tested!
If I understand correctly, in the UK you can get tested for free via the NHS — but if you are obtaining a test result to use to fulfill international travel requirements, you’re not supposed to use one of the free NHS tests, and instead you have to pay a private provider. £80 …. for that kind of money, I hope they came to you and made a house call!
In France, did it seem like the €25 cost was pretty standard? Did it come with any kind of deluxe add-ons (like, “15 euro extra for an English-language translation of the negative result”)?
Theophylact 08.05.21 at 4:52 pm
Tm: The name “Breonna Taylor” springs instantly to mind. But there are many others, as Radley Balko can attest.
Tm 08.05.21 at 5:30 pm
„the reason is that while a positive PCR test is reliable, they have a significant false negative rate. Especially in the early days, an asymptomatic infection may be hard to detect.“
For that reason, the rule now established in many places that you have to be either vaccinated or tested to do X and Y is dubious. In a large crowd, e.g. a festival, you are going to have some infected people infecting others even if everybody is tested negative. The next step will soon have to be, no vaccination no entry period. We are still losing precious time trying to appease the irresponsible minority. And they simply can’t be appeased, as we have again seen in France. The new health pass that caused so much protest (while enjoying solid majority support) only requires the unvaccinated to regularly test. Likewise in Switzerland, the COVID deniers are forcing a referendum against the national COVID certificate, which also treats a negative test equivalent with full vaccination and is still rarely needed (really only to travel). The deniers lost the last referendum less than two months ago and they will again lose by a wide margin. But hey, if you are fighting against dictatorship, you can’t be distracted by reality.
Matt 08.05.21 at 10:14 pm
TM asked: Matt: how many people in the US are harmed because the police mix up the address?
I don’t know for sure, and while I suspect you can get some idea without a really large effort, I doubt it’s that close to comprehensive, so I won’t bother trying to get a full answer. To my mind it’s already enough of a problem that sometimes the wrong answer can lead to very serious and non-compensable outcomes. I suppose that it’s impossible to eliminate all mistakes here, and probably not desirable to try to get as close to zero as possible, but certainly it seems to me that there are more mistakes than there should be, especially in cases with a high potential for very bad outcomes, and that the liability for mistakes is currently put in a way so as to not adequately discourage them.
Barry 08.06.21 at 12:45 am
Chris: “In fact there are few, in fact probably no, areas of policy where I would trust Johnson and his cronies to embark on a “reform†and not come up with institutions functioning worse than when they started.â€
Tim Worstall: ” The only difference between us on this point is that I tend – tend – to think that true of all politicians.”
The true mark of a right-wing shill is the ability to watch the right f*ck things up beyond belief, and still say ‘both sides do it’.
Chris Bertram 08.06.21 at 5:15 am
@Sumana Harihareswara the pharmacy in France printed off documents for no extra charge, and were actually super helpful.
David Steinsaltz 08.06.21 at 9:35 am
I came from Germany (Freiburg) around the same time. Also amber list, despite the fact that the new-case rate in the UK is about 10-fold higher than in Germany. I’m genuinely baffled about why there would be any restrictions at all — much less quarantine — for people coming from regions with lower infection rates. Quarantines are usually used for people coming from regions with high infection rate, or unknown infection rate coming into a region with low rates of disease. With the UK still world-leading in SARS-Cov-2 infection, I can’t think what the reason would be for quarantining new arrivals. (Really genuinely… I assume there must be some justification behind it, but I can’t think what it would be. New variants? Perhaps, but variant surveillance in most of Europe is comparable to the UK.)
Anyway, the rules lead to odd consequences. The closest airport is Basel, but the airport is located right on the border, in France, so we had to travel an extra 200 km to Frankfurt to avoid the gallic taint. The rules were changed on the day we travelled to recognise non-UK vaccinations, so if we’d travelled 1 day earlier, with the same vaccination status we would have had to quarantine for 10 days.
Saurs 08.06.21 at 9:53 am
The true mark of a right-wing shill is the ability to watch the right f*ck things up beyond belief, and still say ‘both sides do it’.
This tactic has, indeed, proven easier and more marketable than actually manufacturing your opposition’s failure, where the end-goal is delegitimizing the mere concept of ‘reform.’ Always a bit bewildering how openly crowing about one’s own incompetence and malevolence only ever harms the credibility of parties other than one’s own. Making everyone else own your failures, be tainted by them indefinitely, is as effective a form of long-term sabotage as ever there was.
oldster 08.06.21 at 7:46 pm
“In France, did it seem like the €25 cost was pretty standard? Did it come with any kind of deluxe add-ons (like, “15 euro extra for an English-language translation of the negative resultâ€)?”
I came back from Italy eight days ago, where the test cost 22 euros, and provided very helpful documentation that was immediately accepted in both airports. (It said “Negativo/Negative), so not much room for ambiguity.)
Staff at the Italian pharmacy were lovely and helpful.
Austin George Loomis 08.07.21 at 10:20 pm
“Making messes nobody knows how to fix is such great politics.”
SusanC 08.08.21 at 1:46 pm
“When questioned about what the rules are, though, they aren’t very good at clarifying and sometime say things that are obviously false (asserting that there could be a financial penalty for not taking the voluntary day 5 test).â€
They probably should refuse to answer that type of question, on the grounds that not being a lawyer, they aren’t qualified to give you professional legal advice. (Also should refuse to answer medical questions about covid19, on the grounds they aren’t licensed to practise medicine).
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