Let’s make this a thread to guess what the “six nations” are. I think it’s a rugby tournament. That means three of them are Wales, England, and New Zealand. The others are either Ireland, France, South Africa, Australia, Papua New Guinea, or some other Pacific island nation. This would depend on whether it’s the same six nations every time, or if there’s some qualification process. Also it depends on what sort of rugby it is.
I will say one thing for rugby union. It may be the most spectacularly boring contact sport ever devised. But they’ve never had the Black-Eyed Peas do their halftime show.
Yet England and New Zealand are tied in points, while the lowly US sits at the bottom with less than one-tenth of those of England and NZ. And while Ganioda’yo (Handsome Lake) may have had visions of an united Iroquois confederacy, the Indian Packing Company (later Acme, yes for realz) seems to have a bit of an advantage over the Seneca and Shawnee iron working inheritors.
I’m just delighted that the one publicly owned non-profit team in the NFL just one. (Hey, we socialists have to take small victories wherever they find them.)
Blow you, while patting your bottom?
The comments opened with the suggestion to “make this a thread to guess what the six nations are.” It doesn’t really matter to me whether or not this is American stupidity. In fact it doesn’t matter in any sense whatsoever. But let’s be clear, it’s stupidity. Preening stupidity at that.
Blow you, while patting your bottom? The comments opened with the suggestion to “make this a thread to guess what the six nations are.†It doesn’t really matter to me whether or not this is American stupidity. In fact it doesn’t matter in any sense whatsoever. But let’s be clear, it’s stupidity. Preening stupidity at that.
The Irish immigrants had the best lacrosse team — the Shamrocks, I believe — in the Montreal area in the late 19th century. They played to win. (They later had the best hockey team, also the Shamrocks.)
Well, while you’re figuring it out, here’s an easy one. What’s the most important international american football competition?
I have to say my heart’s not in this one. The response at #14 was ugly, but your initial comment wasn’t that offensive. It’s just that the same thread gets the same stuff every year. Other views of the world exist, without you or your country at the centre.
Accept my apologies for snapping.
Hm? I thought the whole reason you were posting is because you were offended that Junius was taking the piss on Scotland. (A clue that it wasn’t a comment borne of sincere ignorance: a genuinely non-US-sports-ignorant American wouldn’t know to distinguish between England, Wales, Ireland, and Scotland. Of course such a person would inevitably get huffy about anyone’s failure to distinguish between the geographically muddled NFC and AFC.)
I apologize – I was anticipating a thread with some silly back-and-forth [based on the original post’s seeming annoyance at the omnipresence of Super Bowl references], which never materialized.
The AFC and NFC have nothing to do with geography, it’s more history; but the divisions within them are indeed muddled. American football, like Canadian and Australian rules, was rugby, but then the rules diverged.
I would like to use the occassion of this Superbowl win to reiterate my request to the lords of Green Bay to restore the name of the team to its one and true name – Indian Packers.
Here in Cleveland, we know all about The Indians and their Chief Wahoo caricature. The city built the new baseball and basketball stadium complex with a countywide sales tax on liquor and tobacco but refused to let anyone smoke on the premises. To add insult to injury they sold the naming rights to the Jacobs brothers, so instead of calling it The Cleveland Municipal Stadium they called it Jacobs Field. Art Modell, owner of The Cleveland Browns, got so pissed that the county commissioners wouldn’t levy the additional tax to build a stadium to accommodate the baseball, basketball and football teams that he moved his team to Baltimore. He calls them The Baltimore Ravens. Meanwhile, Mayor White decided that the subsequent civic outrage was sufficiently bellicose to justify the allocation of additional taxes to build an additional stadium for the recently re-incarnated Browns. So now we’ve got The Indians,/i>, The Browns and The Cleveland Cavaliers, each comfortably entrenched in its respective habitat. And the county commissioners have been rendered redundant under a recent referendum which re-organized the metropolitan management system.
The AFC and NFC have nothing to do with geography, it’s more history; but the divisions within them are indeed muddled.
Not that muddled, really. They’re basically geographic, with a few shoehorns due to history. Dallas being in the NFC East, despite being in Texas, is due to fierce rivalries with New York, Washington, and Philadelphia. Indianapolis being in the AFC South is due to a lack of anywhere else to put them. Most of the rest make sense.
American football, like Canadian and Australian rules, was rugby, but then the rules diverged.
Aussie Rules was never rugby, unless by rugby you mean “any tackle football sport derived from England”.
“any tackle football sport derived from England *and* whose generally acknowledged inventor went to school at Rugby, played rugby there, and based the laws of the game on the laws of rugby”, perhaps?
Jim Brown wins as thread unifier: lacrosse, football, Cleveland.
And the story certainly illustrates what a different time it was in big-time college sports; Brown won the high jump and discuss and 2nd in the javelin in a track meet early in the afternoon and then keyed Syracuse clinching the lacrosse national championship a few hours later (lacrosse rule of constantly moving the stick is generally attributed to Brown’s dominance in the sport). Also played basketball there through his junior year.
I went to the same high school as Jim Brown albeit about 35 years later, I heard the same story about him in HS except there was also a baseball game involved also. And until the Gait brothers came along was generally considered the best lacrosse player of all time. So dude is basically, arguably the best football player of all time, arguably the best lacrosse player of all time, arguably the best thing ever in Cleveland (yes, I’m aware that Bob Feller might give him a run for his money, hence arguably).
Ergo, Jim Brown could win the six nations cup singlehanded.
I went to the same high school as Jim Brown albeit about 35 years later,
Apparently he had the highest basketball scoring average in Long Island history (38 points)–supposedly first bested by Carl Yastrzemski! Jim Toback’s annoying biography Jim has a some good stuff on his overall competitive nature after he retired as does Bill Russell’s autobiography.
(yes, I’m aware that Bob Feller might give him a run for his money, hence arguably)
As far as winning the big game, I’d say Otto Graham would be his competition in Cleveland.
Jesus. People crack the same Iroquois joke here every year when we discuss this.
Just back from Paris, which was full of friendly Scots ridiculously happy to have put 3 tries past the French . England on the up, I think – might even win the tournament this year.
@ Chris Jesus. People crack the same Iroquois joke here every year when we discuss this.
Because repetition is the key to comedy. Now can we get back to discussing something people care about, like how awesome Jim Brown is?
@ Mrs. Tilton Mmm, dunno. Jim Brown, solo, against a 90-man combined Irish/Scottish/Welsh/English/French/Italian side? I’d have to give Brown at best even odds.
Jim Brown recently declined to attend the Ring of Honor ceremony, a local Browns PR event held in Cleveland to celebrate the Browns’ tradition of fielding the greatest athletes in the history of NFL football. In a letter to Mike Holmgren, President of the Browns franchise (which was owned by Randy Lerner), Brown stated his reasons for boycotting the event:
I would hope that you would take the time to read my agreement with the Clevelend Browns. I had no contract, but I was asked to write a job description so that my duties would be clear.
That job description included two things that I think are important. As Executive Adviser to the owner, my job was to use my intelligence, and my logic to advise Mr. Lerner. The second most important thing to me was a clause in that agreement that stated that I answered to no one except Randy Lerner. These two thing were highly important to me because I truly believed, with my educational background, having been a Cleveland Brown for 9 yrs, and having a pretty good knowledge of football, that I could contribute in a valuable way to the organization.
When you called me for a meeting in your office, there was no conversation about that agreement, no conversation about my duties, no conversation about what I felt, no conversation about my relationship with the players, no conversation about my relationship with the coaches, no conversation about my relationship with the head coach, and no conversation about my community work. Ultimately there was no conversation about anything that I felt was related to my job.
Your ultimatum to me was that you would offer me the opportunity of being that of the greeter, that of a mascot, that of a person that would represent special events by his physical presence, and for those things, I would receive a salary of $100,000. All of those things that you offered me would be controlled by you.
After that 10 minute meeting, I went to my office with a feeling that I was just fired by the Cleveland Browns, because in my mind, there would be no way on this earth that you would expect me to go against everything that I’ve ever stood for in my whole life.
Not wanting to get into a public debate, I left my office and went home. I never spoke to the media, or any of my friends at the Browns, because I truly didn’t know what to say to them. I thought that was the responsibility of the Browns. I wrote you and Randy a note, and said I did not accept that proposed position, but if I could do anything meaningful for the organization, I would consider it. I took that position, because of my respect for the Lerner family, and everyone that I had worked with in the Cleveland Browns organization.
I was able to study your press conference and found your statements to be consistent in the way that you value me, and I observed the comments of the key players that sat by your side, and here was the impression I got: Your most powerful statement about me was that, and I must laugh, one monkey don’t stop the show. The two players that were with you, one of them made the statement that he was overwhelmed to be honored, and the other started talking about a subject that was highly important, and that was the pension plan, and the improvement that he would hope would happen, but stated that he was there to discuss the Ring of Honor.
I was happy to hear Joe DeLamielleure bring up the pension plan, because right now Mike, I am working with everything I have in my power to be an advocate for a better pension plan and health care services for all the retired players. If you, in your position of tremendous power with the Cleveland Browns, would become an advocate of those two goals, you and I could walk side by side.
But in my conclusion, I’ve never danced in the end zone, I always gave the ball to the referee, so you should know I don’t dance. Also Mike, I don’t hang out on the Westside of town. I’m an Eastside guy. I play my golf at Highland Golf Course. I don’t go to the Hall of Fame ceremonies, except on occasions, like when Gene Hickerson was inducted, and I felt very proud to be with Bobby Mitchell and Leroy Kelly in showing our respect for his great contribution, and for helping us become great players. I don’t have any trophies in my home on display. I don’t claim to be the best at anything, and I emphatically do not need validation from any man, so I will not participate in your Ring of Honor.
Mike, there’s only one thing that I control in life, and that’s being a man. So let me end with a little humor, because as you say, one monkey don’t stop the show, and as I say “Willie Lynch missed a few of usâ€, and there will be no Buck Dancing.
{ 41 comments }
Junius Ponds 02.06.11 at 11:55 pm
Let’s make this a thread to guess what the “six nations” are. I think it’s a rugby tournament. That means three of them are Wales, England, and New Zealand. The others are either Ireland, France, South Africa, Australia, Papua New Guinea, or some other Pacific island nation. This would depend on whether it’s the same six nations every time, or if there’s some qualification process. Also it depends on what sort of rugby it is.
Wait, they don’t play rugby in Scotland, do they?
garymar 02.07.11 at 12:25 am
The Six Nations: Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, Seneca, and Tuscarora. That’s what I thought when I saw the title.
bert 02.07.11 at 12:48 am
Lookame, ignorint!
Hilarious as always.
I like the way american footballers are always patting each others’ bottoms.
Very broadminded.
bert 02.07.11 at 12:54 am
As for the weekend’s games, now it seems even Scotland are more fun to watch than the England rugby team.
Even Scotland.
Jersey Patriot 02.07.11 at 1:18 am
I will say one thing for rugby union. It may be the most spectacularly boring contact sport ever devised. But they’ve never had the Black-Eyed Peas do their halftime show.
hardindr 02.07.11 at 1:52 am
@garymar
Thank you from a Syracuse native.
spyder 02.07.11 at 2:46 am
Yet England and New Zealand are tied in points, while the lowly US sits at the bottom with less than one-tenth of those of England and NZ. And while Ganioda’yo (Handsome Lake) may have had visions of an united Iroquois confederacy, the Indian Packing Company (later Acme, yes for realz) seems to have a bit of an advantage over the Seneca and Shawnee iron working inheritors.
Russell Arben Fox 02.07.11 at 3:49 am
I’m just delighted that the one publicly owned non-profit team in the NFL just one. (Hey, we socialists have to take small victories wherever they find them.)
P O'Neill 02.07.11 at 4:16 am
Those Packer finances are complicated.
Tim Worstall 02.07.11 at 8:59 am
“The Six Nations: Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, Seneca, and Tuscarora. ”
Now that would be an interesting rugby tournament…..
stostosto 02.07.11 at 11:55 am
Yay! Liverpool!
garymar 02.07.11 at 12:46 pm
RAF @8:
“Won” is the loneliest number that you’ll ever hear.
Jan van Leyden 02.07.11 at 1:12 pm
The real Six Nations do compete internationally in lacrosse, which they more or less invented.
bh 02.07.11 at 1:13 pm
Lookame, ignorint!
Hilarious as always.
I like the way american footballers are always patting each others’ bottoms.
Very broadminded
Ah… non-US sports = culture
US sports = Stupid Americans!
Blow me, Bert.
stostosto 02.07.11 at 2:43 pm
@bh:
more accurate, shorter version:
non-US sports = sports
Massilian 02.07.11 at 2:55 pm
vous avez dit le “super bol” ? Hummm !
ajay 02.07.11 at 4:03 pm
the Indian Packing Company
One per crate. Do not stack more than four high.
bert 02.07.11 at 5:23 pm
Blow you, while patting your bottom?
The comments opened with the suggestion to “make this a thread to guess what the six nations are.” It doesn’t really matter to me whether or not this is American stupidity. In fact it doesn’t matter in any sense whatsoever. But let’s be clear, it’s stupidity. Preening stupidity at that.
Niall McAuley 02.07.11 at 5:44 pm
But let’s be clear
Charging to 200…
Junius Ponds 02.07.11 at 6:48 pm
Blow you, while patting your bottom?
The comments opened with the suggestion to “make this a thread to guess what the six nations are.†It doesn’t really matter to me whether or not this is American stupidity. In fact it doesn’t matter in any sense whatsoever. But let’s be clear, it’s stupidity. Preening stupidity at that.
What?
AntiAlias 02.07.11 at 8:01 pm
Aww, another time I clicked on the 4chan link instead of CT…
Western Dave 02.07.11 at 8:06 pm
” “The Six Nations: Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, Seneca, and Tuscarora. â€
Now that would be an interesting rugby tournament…..”
But it would be one hell of a lacrosse tournament. As long as they didn’t have to travel to England to do it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/17/sports/17lacrosse.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1
Tom Hurka 02.07.11 at 8:40 pm
The Irish immigrants had the best lacrosse team — the Shamrocks, I believe — in the Montreal area in the late 19th century. They played to win. (They later had the best hockey team, also the Shamrocks.)
roac 02.07.11 at 8:53 pm
The question is — could the Six Nations beat the Europeans at rugby if they were allowed to carry lacrosse sticks?
bert 02.07.11 at 9:21 pm
Well, while you’re figuring it out, here’s an easy one. What’s the most important international american football competition?
I have to say my heart’s not in this one. The response at #14 was ugly, but your initial comment wasn’t that offensive. It’s just that the same thread gets the same stuff every year. Other views of the world exist, without you or your country at the centre.
Accept my apologies for snapping.
Salient 02.07.11 at 9:53 pm
your initial comment wasn’t that offensive
Hm? I thought the whole reason you were posting is because you were offended that Junius was taking the piss on Scotland. (A clue that it wasn’t a comment borne of sincere ignorance: a genuinely non-US-sports-ignorant American wouldn’t know to distinguish between England, Wales, Ireland, and Scotland. Of course such a person would inevitably get huffy about anyone’s failure to distinguish between the geographically muddled NFC and AFC.)
Junius Ponds 02.07.11 at 10:40 pm
I apologize – I was anticipating a thread with some silly back-and-forth [based on the original post’s seeming annoyance at the omnipresence of Super Bowl references], which never materialized.
Mr Punch 02.08.11 at 1:07 am
The AFC and NFC have nothing to do with geography, it’s more history; but the divisions within them are indeed muddled. American football, like Canadian and Australian rules, was rugby, but then the rules diverged.
Anand Manikutty 02.08.11 at 1:17 am
I would like to use the occassion of this Superbowl win to reiterate my request to the lords of Green Bay to restore the name of the team to its one and true name – Indian Packers.
JJ 02.08.11 at 3:41 am
Here in Cleveland, we know all about The Indians and their Chief Wahoo caricature. The city built the new baseball and basketball stadium complex with a countywide sales tax on liquor and tobacco but refused to let anyone smoke on the premises. To add insult to injury they sold the naming rights to the Jacobs brothers, so instead of calling it The Cleveland Municipal Stadium they called it Jacobs Field. Art Modell, owner of The Cleveland Browns, got so pissed that the county commissioners wouldn’t levy the additional tax to build a stadium to accommodate the baseball, basketball and football teams that he moved his team to Baltimore. He calls them The Baltimore Ravens. Meanwhile, Mayor White decided that the subsequent civic outrage was sufficiently bellicose to justify the allocation of additional taxes to build an additional stadium for the recently re-incarnated Browns. So now we’ve got The Indians,/i>, The Browns and The Cleveland Cavaliers, each comfortably entrenched in its respective habitat. And the county commissioners have been rendered redundant under a recent referendum which re-organized the metropolitan management system.
Oh, and LeBron James moved to Miami.
Jersey Patriot 02.08.11 at 5:58 am
The AFC and NFC have nothing to do with geography, it’s more history; but the divisions within them are indeed muddled.
Not that muddled, really. They’re basically geographic, with a few shoehorns due to history. Dallas being in the NFC East, despite being in Texas, is due to fierce rivalries with New York, Washington, and Philadelphia. Indianapolis being in the AFC South is due to a lack of anywhere else to put them. Most of the rest make sense.
American football, like Canadian and Australian rules, was rugby, but then the rules diverged.
Aussie Rules was never rugby, unless by rugby you mean “any tackle football sport derived from England”.
john b 02.08.11 at 6:05 am
“any tackle football sport derived from England *and* whose generally acknowledged inventor went to school at Rugby, played rugby there, and based the laws of the game on the laws of rugby”, perhaps?
polyorchnid octopunch 02.08.11 at 10:33 pm
Hey, I love lacrosse… and I’ve played in bands with folks from the Mohawk member of the six nations; there’s lots of ’em around here.
You know why the call it lacrosse? It’s because the players crucify each other. The temptation to use those big sticks is pretty huge….
spyder 02.08.11 at 10:36 pm
Could it be, that the only thing at the top of the pile in Cleveland is the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame?
JP Stormcrow 02.08.11 at 11:05 pm
Jim Brown wins as thread unifier: lacrosse, football, Cleveland.
And the story certainly illustrates what a different time it was in big-time college sports; Brown won the high jump and discuss and 2nd in the javelin in a track meet early in the afternoon and then keyed Syracuse clinching the lacrosse national championship a few hours later (lacrosse rule of constantly moving the stick is generally attributed to Brown’s dominance in the sport). Also played basketball there through his junior year.
Western Dave 02.09.11 at 3:12 am
I went to the same high school as Jim Brown albeit about 35 years later, I heard the same story about him in HS except there was also a baseball game involved also. And until the Gait brothers came along was generally considered the best lacrosse player of all time. So dude is basically, arguably the best football player of all time, arguably the best lacrosse player of all time, arguably the best thing ever in Cleveland (yes, I’m aware that Bob Feller might give him a run for his money, hence arguably).
Ergo, Jim Brown could win the six nations cup singlehanded.
JP Stormcrow 02.09.11 at 4:14 am
I went to the same high school as Jim Brown albeit about 35 years later,
Apparently he had the highest basketball scoring average in Long Island history (38 points)–supposedly first bested by Carl Yastrzemski! Jim Toback’s annoying biography Jim has a some good stuff on his overall competitive nature after he retired as does Bill Russell’s autobiography.
(yes, I’m aware that Bob Feller might give him a run for his money, hence arguably)
As far as winning the big game, I’d say Otto Graham would be his competition in Cleveland.
Mrs Tilton 02.09.11 at 10:45 pm
Ergo, Jim Brown could win the six nations cup singlehanded.
Mmm, dunno. Jim Brown, solo, against a 90-man combined Irish/Scottish/Welsh/English/French/Italian side? I’d have to give Brown at best even odds.
Chris Bertram 02.09.11 at 11:17 pm
Jesus. People crack the same Iroquois joke here every year when we discuss this.
Just back from Paris, which was full of friendly Scots ridiculously happy to have put 3 tries past the French . England on the up, I think – might even win the tournament this year.
Western Dave 02.10.11 at 4:21 pm
@ Chris Jesus. People crack the same Iroquois joke here every year when we discuss this.
Because repetition is the key to comedy. Now can we get back to discussing something people care about, like how awesome Jim Brown is?
@ Mrs. Tilton Mmm, dunno. Jim Brown, solo, against a 90-man combined Irish/Scottish/Welsh/English/French/Italian side? I’d have to give Brown at best even odds.
Depends does he get to use his lacrosse stick?
JJ 02.11.11 at 8:16 pm
Jim Brown recently declined to attend the Ring of Honor ceremony, a local Browns PR event held in Cleveland to celebrate the Browns’ tradition of fielding the greatest athletes in the history of NFL football. In a letter to Mike Holmgren, President of the Browns franchise (which was owned by Randy Lerner), Brown stated his reasons for boycotting the event:
<blockquote cite="http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=122520&article=7541766"
Mike,
I would hope that you would take the time to read my agreement with the Clevelend Browns. I had no contract, but I was asked to write a job description so that my duties would be clear.
That job description included two things that I think are important. As Executive Adviser to the owner, my job was to use my intelligence, and my logic to advise Mr. Lerner. The second most important thing to me was a clause in that agreement that stated that I answered to no one except Randy Lerner. These two thing were highly important to me because I truly believed, with my educational background, having been a Cleveland Brown for 9 yrs, and having a pretty good knowledge of football, that I could contribute in a valuable way to the organization.
When you called me for a meeting in your office, there was no conversation about that agreement, no conversation about my duties, no conversation about what I felt, no conversation about my relationship with the players, no conversation about my relationship with the coaches, no conversation about my relationship with the head coach, and no conversation about my community work. Ultimately there was no conversation about anything that I felt was related to my job.
Your ultimatum to me was that you would offer me the opportunity of being that of the greeter, that of a mascot, that of a person that would represent special events by his physical presence, and for those things, I would receive a salary of $100,000. All of those things that you offered me would be controlled by you.
After that 10 minute meeting, I went to my office with a feeling that I was just fired by the Cleveland Browns, because in my mind, there would be no way on this earth that you would expect me to go against everything that I’ve ever stood for in my whole life.
Not wanting to get into a public debate, I left my office and went home. I never spoke to the media, or any of my friends at the Browns, because I truly didn’t know what to say to them. I thought that was the responsibility of the Browns. I wrote you and Randy a note, and said I did not accept that proposed position, but if I could do anything meaningful for the organization, I would consider it. I took that position, because of my respect for the Lerner family, and everyone that I had worked with in the Cleveland Browns organization.
I was able to study your press conference and found your statements to be consistent in the way that you value me, and I observed the comments of the key players that sat by your side, and here was the impression I got: Your most powerful statement about me was that, and I must laugh, one monkey don’t stop the show. The two players that were with you, one of them made the statement that he was overwhelmed to be honored, and the other started talking about a subject that was highly important, and that was the pension plan, and the improvement that he would hope would happen, but stated that he was there to discuss the Ring of Honor.
I was happy to hear Joe DeLamielleure bring up the pension plan, because right now Mike, I am working with everything I have in my power to be an advocate for a better pension plan and health care services for all the retired players. If you, in your position of tremendous power with the Cleveland Browns, would become an advocate of those two goals, you and I could walk side by side.
But in my conclusion, I’ve never danced in the end zone, I always gave the ball to the referee, so you should know I don’t dance. Also Mike, I don’t hang out on the Westside of town. I’m an Eastside guy. I play my golf at Highland Golf Course. I don’t go to the Hall of Fame ceremonies, except on occasions, like when Gene Hickerson was inducted, and I felt very proud to be with Bobby Mitchell and Leroy Kelly in showing our respect for his great contribution, and for helping us become great players. I don’t have any trophies in my home on display. I don’t claim to be the best at anything, and I emphatically do not need validation from any man, so I will not participate in your Ring of Honor.
Mike, there’s only one thing that I control in life, and that’s being a man. So let me end with a little humor, because as you say, one monkey don’t stop the show, and as I say “Willie Lynch missed a few of usâ€, and there will be no Buck Dancing.
Comments on this entry are closed.