Comments Threads and Spam

Interesting, but no thanks. I don’t give my address at public meetings, why should I do so here?

I used to post a valid email address in forums or discussion threads, and I had to close each of those email addresses I’ve used on the web because they were flooded with spam in the space of a few weeks.

So, no way I’m ever going to do that again. Now I’m completely spam-free on both work and personal accounts and intend it to remain that way.

What is happening to you is indeed because your email does not actually show up on the page, as the web url takes over. What’s the point of adding a valid email if it doesn’t show up? People won’t be able to see it, they’ll only see the URL, and if that URL does not reference an email, you’re basically achieving the same effect as posting an invalid email – people cannot contact you, _and_ spammers cannot harvest your email.

Anything with a @ gets harvested. You can’t avoid that. It’s impossible. If you have your email displayed anywhere on your website, you’d better use email-cloaking tools, or even better, have a contact form instead, where the email is hidden in the script itself, not displayed. That’s not possible to do in comments, so, fake addresses are the only solution.

I’ve gotten a number of spam messages whose subjects named Maxspeak messages on which I commented. Don’t know why they choose to pick on him.

The problem is that once an email address is spam bound it tends to stay that way, and chaging email addresses is something I do not like to do often.

I give out my real email address and my real web page on message boards and blog comments. I don’t *think* my real name is associated with those, but I haven’t made a special effort to keep them apart.

If I am handing out my $.02, the recipient of same should be able to reach me so that he or she can call me a big, fat dodo stupidhead or (less frequently) compliment my style and *then* call me a big, fat dodo stupidhead.

Do I get spam? Yep. The filter gets most of it, and I delete the rest. It doesn’t even raise my blood pressure anymore.

…have a contact form instead, where the email is hidden in the script itself, not displayed. That’s not possible to do in comments, so, fake addresses are the only solution.

Actually it’s really easy to do in comments. Just leave a web address as well, and no email address is displayed. Any web address will do.

Of course, anyone who wants to run this experiment themselves can easily set up a yahoo account and watch. If you just use the address on comments boards and always leave a web address, I bet it won’t end up with any spam.

As for the PGP signing, it could be a good idea but I’ll leave it to the technical wizards here.

About the PGP signing thing…

I’d be happy if everything had PGP functionality built into it. But, anyway, regarding Movable Type, this will soon not be necessary as MT 3.0 will go to a validated central-server userid comment system which will solve the spam problem. Although I know some people aren’t thrilled about it. As I’m sure CT does, I use MT-Blacklist; but the last I heard he’s not going to continue to maintain it because of MT 3.0.

I just thought I’d take the opportunity to point out that my linked address is, in fact, a real email account. It’s not my main one, and I don’t check it very often, but I’m darn proud of having registered the account.

nat whilk wrote: The problem is when they start calling you on your home phone at 3 a.m. to tell you that. That’s no fun.

That, to me, would be beyond the bounds of propriety. I would be mortally offended if someone escalated an internet disagreement, no matter how heated, to any sort of physical world confrontation. (I realize some people do behave that way, but I figure anyone who does can’t claim to be civilized.)

Unfortunately, I do not have a good civilized response to this sort of uncivilized behavior. I am open to suggestions…

I started posting at Conservative sites, and I mostly didn’t want to have to continue debates past a certain point. It’s great to debate on a message board, but I don’t want to have to sift through tons of “you’re an anti-semite because you’re a Democrat” or “you’re an idiot for believing in global warming” types of e-mail to see what my sister or folks want to e-mail me (particularly since their e-mails largely consist of uplifting things, like bull dogs on skate boards).

I don’t believe it’s a matter of ‘personal accountability’ when it comes to making a comment, writing your opinions, even keeping a web site or weblog. Anonymity is a right. Especially when voicing opinions. You’re still responsible for what you write. Obviously. But I don’t think the choice of preserving your privacy above all should be so disparaged.

You can write letters to the editor of a newspaper, they’ll publish it if it’s interesting, and bin it if it’s not – but they won’t publish your home address and telephone number unless you ask them to specifically, for whatever reason. So I don’t see why it should be different on the net.

Besides, even when you’re posting anonymously, if someone wants a way to contact you, they can just ask in the thread and you can give a simple spam-proof instruction.

So, no need to turn internet privacy into some kind of irresponsibility. It’s a very precious thing. No better reminder of that than when it’s abused. I suppose it’s all a matter of personal experiences, but I’d rather not risk having nastier ones than those I’ve already had.

anno-nymous: nice address! I’ve only seen one address which impressed me even more than yours does — this guy.

Privacy hasn’t traditionally been a “right” in the sense that other rights have been recognized.

And what I mean by “public privacy” is what I think you’re misleadingly calling “privacy”: anonymity or semi-anonymity in public. Real privacy is…privacy. That acts that occur in private are private.

But there’s no reason in the world that I have a “right” to get up on a soapbox in the public square yet hide behind a curtain. Well, okay, traditionally there is some value seen in anonymous political speech (and related), but in that traditional world such anonymity was the exception, not the rule. One had to go to some trouble to be an anonymous public figure. Today, everyone can be and many are.

This has turned the equation on its head. Before, there was too much personal accountability for one’s speech in the context of asserting unpopular political or religious ideas and anonymity served a necessary purpose. Now, there’s too little personal accountability—this anonymity in public is being misused far, far more than it is being socially useful.

That you ask: “does that alone make what you write more interesting or valid or reliable?” indicates that you don’t get where I’m coming from at all. It’s not about making my writing more appealing to you, or more credible, or whatever—it’s making me be accountable for what I write. People say outrageious things on the net that they’d never, ever say in real life simply because they can get away with it. I refuse to allow myself that unaccountability.

This language of “rights” really bothers me because, firstly, I don’t believe in “natural rights” anyway; and, secondly, even if I did, I don’t see how there could be a “natural right” to being anonymous in public. Yeah, I can come up with a utilitarian argument for it…maybe…but that this is automatically cast in the language of assumed inalienable “rights” just drives me crazy.

keith – ok, anonymity is not the same thing as privacy, but on the internet, for people who, unlike you, chose to not use their real full name, anonymity is a means to preserve privacy. Whatever reasons they may have to choose that option, I simply object to it being reduced to a lack of responsibility. It does depend on the actual _content_ of what one writes.

If you were here trolling and posting objectionable stuff and insults and racist comments and so on, you’d be a moron with no sense of responsibility anyway, whether you used your real name or not.

Choosing anonymity does not automatically mean you’re abusing an internet forum. You can’t lump in together anonymous trolls and anonymous commenters just because they both happen to not display their real names. You know? There might a lot of good reasons not to use your real name, aside from avoiding spam itself.

Everyone chooses what they feel comfortable with. I find this attribution of “cowardice” to anonymous posters quite pretentious to be honest.

But there’s no reason in the world that I have a “right” to get up on a soapbox in the public square yet hide behind a curtain.

No? Why not? It is everyone’s right to choose what they prefer, anonymity or real name. Actually, the way you’re putting it here, seems to me you’re the one getting on the high horse of “I use my real name therefore I am more responsible than you”. What kind of higher accountability does that give you? I see none. What matters in the context of a discussion on the net is simply what you’re writing in that particular discussion. Nothing else.

Well, okay, traditionally there is some value seen in anonymous political speech (and related), but in that traditional world such anonymity was the exception, not the rule. One had to go to some trouble to be an anonymous public figure. Today, everyone can be and many are.

I don’t know what you’re referring to, honestly. Seems to me anonymity and/or privacy are becoming more and more of an issue, in terms of legislation as well. So seems to me it’s actually considered a right.

Even voting is private _and_ anonymous. Yes, you do need to ID yourself to vote but _no one will know who and what you voted for_.

So the most relevant form of public (as it does have a public outcome) expression of one’s political views is envisaged to grant you the highest anonymity.

If privacy wasn’t a right, I guess we’d all be forced by law to declare our vote and have it attached to our social security or ID card or something like that.

So I don’t see what’s so odd about considering it a right to keep one’s views anonymous in the context of a discussion on the internet. I’ve signed petitions with my real name and address, I’ve sent non-anonymous letters to editors, or to political parties or media, etc. But the internet is different. For the reasons *teep* explained above, among others.

Besides, when I’m writing to a paper or tv network, I know they have editors and they have to respect laws as well as professional codes of conduct in matters of privacy and everything else. I cannot always assume or demand the same standards from an internet forum or a website, no matter how much I may consider it reliable and trustworthy. Web sites are not subject to the same requirements as printed publications; which is fine, as that allows more people to speak their minds, but it means it’s a completely unregulated context and therefore I’ll have to be responsible for protecting my own privacy myself.

I’m not going to let anyone, whatever reasons they may have, collect information about me that they may use in ways I may not particularly care for, from spamming to abuse to stalking to harassment to slander; but I still like to take advantage of the opportunity to contribute to a discussion, if the owner of that site accepts and welcomes comments. I don’t understand what’s so despicable about that.