Comments thread, Athenian-style

by Chris Bertram on February 15, 2006

I’m off to hear my colleague Jimmy Doyle talk about the “Gorgias”:http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/gorgias.html . In preparation I came across this passage (at about 457d) .

bq. Socrates: You, Gorgias, like myself, have had great experience of disputations, and you must have observed, I think, that they do not always terminate in mutual edification, or in the definition by either party of the subjects which they are discussing; but disagreements are apt to arise-somebody says that another has not spoken truly or clearly; and then they get into a passion and begin to quarrel, both parties conceiving that their opponents are arguing from personal feeling only and jealousy of themselves, not from any interest in the question at issue. And sometimes they will go on abusing one another until the bystanders at last are quite vexed at themselves for ever listening to such fellows.

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Cheryl’s Mewsings » Predicting the Future: Science Fiction and Fantasy News
02.15.06 at 8:10 am

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1

Kieran Healy 02.15.06 at 7:41 am

Sez you.

2

Brendan 02.15.06 at 7:43 am

You bastard. How dare you write such a post? That’s it, I’m leaving.

3

Daniel 02.15.06 at 8:02 am

I remember the Gorgias from when it was shown on BBC2. I’m sure it would seem pretty tame now but it was considered quite racy at the time.

4

abb1 02.15.06 at 8:10 am

Actually, bystanders enjoy it. Much more than they do any stupid “mutual edification”.

5

Ray 02.15.06 at 8:29 am

We’d be a lot more good-natured and logical if you bastards weren’t too tight to spring for a pre-comment dinner.

6

Matt 02.15.06 at 8:49 am

I think that in most states in the US you can get arrested for engaging in “mutual edification” in public, especially in same-sex pairs.

7

Delicious Pundit 02.15.06 at 9:30 am

Is the Gorgias where we get the phrase, “Long-time listener, first-time caller”?

8

Barry Freed 02.15.06 at 9:37 am

Gorgias: Heh. Indeed.

9

someone7 02.15.06 at 9:46 am

You fail to understand – all is false, hence, all apparently logical arguments must be disputed, endlessly, to the last consequences. That is the only reasonable thing to do. But then, the notion of reason is also false, just as your post. So is this comment.

10

Bro. Bartleby 02.15.06 at 7:15 pm

“A soldier leafcutter ant with huge mandibles guards the entrance to the nest keeping out interlopers. If a worker ant comes along without a piece of leaf he bites off its head. Why is he doing this? Is it part of the struggle for available energy? No leaf means less leaf to grow fungus upon and that means less food for the colony.”

And that folks is what we lack! A gatekeeper with HUGE mandibles! Bite the heads off those with leafless posts!

11

Gary Farber 02.16.06 at 3:00 am

On a similar note, I’ve long been fond of this quotation by Desiderius Erasmus:

The sum of our religion is peace and unanimity, but these can scarcely stand unless we define as little as possible, and in many things leave one free to follow his own judgment, because there is great obscurity in many matters, and man suffers from this almost congenital disease that he will not give in when once a controversy is started, and after he is heated he regards as absolutely true that which he began to sponsor quite casually….”

Of course, that I’m fond of it is why it’s been one of the quotes on my blog’s sidebar for several years.

12

Anderson 02.16.06 at 5:15 pm

My favorite part comes a bit after the quoted part:

I am one of those who are very willing to be refuted if I say anything which is not true, and very willing to refute any one else who says what is not true, and quite as ready to be refuted as to refute; for I hold that this is the greater gain of the two, just as the gain is greater of being cured of a very great evil than of curing another. For I imagine that there is no evil which a man can endure so great as an erroneous opinion about the matters of which we are speaking.

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