Happy Holidays!

Actually in America it’s Merry Christmas not happy Christmas as in:”Merry Christmas & Happy New Year”

Also I’m with you it’s a Christmas tree, not a holiday tree.

I feel if you know someone’s religious affiliation then use the appropriate greeting, otherwise “Happy Holidays” if fine with me, tis the season to be polite & not be a obnoxious dick. I’m looking at you Bill O’Reilly

In the above, of course, `no personally’ = `know personally’.

A bit testy, are we? I must admit that this all sounds a bit like “you idiots! Why can’t you do things the way _I_ like them!”, a bit much, really. When Americans do that abroad they are rightly called “ugly” for it.

…[I]t’s annoying to be informed by workmates that, no, that’s not a Christmas tree in the lobby

Did this really happen to you, Maria? Literally? Your casual usage of the term “Christmas tree” was corrected? I’ll bet your “workmate” then turned around and spat on a returning Vietnam veteran.

Hmm, Matt (and others).

You know since Americans dominate the blogosphere, those of us who come from elsewhere end up reading all kinds of commentary about _our_ allegedly quirky ways. Maria can write about how it looks to her without you all jumping up and down, surely?

Do Americans dominate the blogosphere? I thought that wasn’t true but don’t really know. I’d think it’s not really the point, though. It was a silly post, and at least mildly offensive. It would be so if it were about any country. Generally, telling people how fucking stupid they are has that feel, no? I suppose that’s true even when it’s Americans it’s told to.

Well, I don’t want to pile on or anything, but one person’s “Commentary about our allegedly quirky ways” is another person’s Fox News War on Christmas BS. ‘Tis a minefield that Maria’s stepped in, so that’s one reason for a somewhat enthusiastic pushback.

But hey, war is over if you want it!

Matt, hard to know how to respond. Bill Bryson (American) has made a whole career out of poking fun at various British idiocies. We don’t get offended, we laugh at ourselves, or shrug at outsiders not getting it. Being offended is way too insecure.

About that tree: as far as I know it was invented by pagan germanic tribes.

You should move to New York, Maria!

December 25 is Christmas, after all, whether I regard it as a religious holiday or not.

Not necessarily. To some people January 7 is Christmas. By wishing them a marry Christmas in December you might be asking for trouble, they are very unpredictable. Ah, it’s a mess.

You know Megan, until not long ago I would have agreed with you. But my brother moved to San Diego two years ago and so for the first time I’ve had occasion to spend time in Southern California.

And you know what? People there really do exercise more, drink and smoke less, consume more (and better!) coffee, read less, are more likely to be from blond Midwestern stock (but also much more likely to be Mexican), drive bigger cars on bigger highways, and put a higher value on tanned, athletic bodies but somewhat lower on other aspects of personal style. The stereotypes are there for a reason!

Eh? I haven’t classified L.A. as anything, I’ve just said I’m not the sort of person who aspires to moving here.

Well, I should have known that posting something about how I really shouldn’t get my nose out of joint about something trivial would put people’s noses out of joint about something trivial. Tant pis.

Well, I’m thinking that the very large majority of people who aspire to move to Los Angeles are third world immigrants looking for economic betterment. Perhaps that isn’t you either and you’re surprised to find yourself in LA and running up against the culture shock.

But if you can live in LA and still think of it as a place that primarily gathers in would-be starlets, you’ve misssed, like, nearly all of what is going on in a huge city.

Eh. My own rule is to give posters and commenters the best possible reading of what they’ve typed, and I’m not doing that. You’ll make of LA whatever you do. I hope you enjoy your time there [sincerely].

I’ve always thought “Merry Christmas” sounds quite odd unless it’s actually December 25, or you specifically know that you won’t see the person again until after December 25. And if you won’t see them again until after January 1, then “Merry Christmas” is leaving out New Year’s, which happens to be my favorite holiday.

I suppose when you’re sending an actual card, then it’s harder to know what day it’ll arrive, so you might as well say “Season’s Greetings” or something of the sort.

Also, referring to “the flyover zone” is arguably far more offensive than “blonde, big-titted”.

I like ‘flyover country’. People there really are nicer and less phony than the coasts. I’m particularly fond of Wyomingians.

If one has spent any time in the ‘flyover country’ they’d know what an ignorant thing it is to say.

Anyone who parses out holiday greetings, or even thinks about them more than a minute is nuts. Who, besides a blowhard like O’Reilly gives a damn? It’s cool, Maria.

There’s not a War on Christmas. Christmas is fighting a war on us. Dragging us to tense office parties, jamming us into malls like cattle, emptying our bank accounts, forcing us through painful and ridiculous rituals(hanging the lights on the bushes outside, in the freezing cold, hauling boxes of decorations from the attic, turning our children into greed crazed zombies. Oh God, and the freaking in-laws! It’s like we’re rats in a horrible experiment, a green and red maze we can’t escape.

I’m also with Will. People celebrate a bunch of different holidays at this time of year, and I’m happy to hope they’re all happy unless I know which one the person I’m talking to is particularly attached to.

And frankly, if the right-wing message is that saying “Happy Holidays” is a sign of rampant tolerance and secular humanism, I’m even more pleased to keep saying it.

Maria, it’s a good try at a Friday night light post, in the tradition of Ezster and DD. Of course, Ezster used to engage us as geeks rather than flamers. Post about a game, we waste some time with it and come back here to say thanks. Dsquared instead does the full frontal flamewar thing, just slightly over the top, offensiveness-wise. This post here is neither fish nor fowl though. You’re discovering things about the states that, well, are a little cliched, but no harm. I think people here are mostly bothered that it’s so ordinary. Next week, if you’re so inclined, either stake an outrageous and unusual claim full-on, or aim for consensus community-building with something nerdy.

By the way, I’ve known some anti-fundie Christian folk who are uncomfortable wishing people Merry Xmas during Advent – a completely different holiday. Just because it irritates the right wing doesn’t make it ‘political correctness.’

Partly because in English as I know it, a holiday is simply a group of days you choose to take off

Not in English as I know it. That is referred to as a “vacation” in the US.

Let’s just say that on account of me not being a blonde, big-titted wannabe from the flyover zone, it was never my life’s dream to live in L.A.

Me neither. But now that I’ve been here awhile I find it fascinating. It’s still becoming — it’s like someone on the end of his/her growth spurt trying to how to dress in a decent mass transit system like a grownup.

And don’t worry about your tits — I’m sure they’re fine. You don’t even need big tits out here unless you’re audtioning for the part of a doctor.

If anybody even cares, it’s cold and rainy here in Laguna Beach.

So cold that I was wearing the thick sweater and light leather jacket I bought in Edinburgh a few Mays ago as I took my ancient asthmatic mother, in her long black leather coat, a scarf about her throat, downtown for Santa’s arrival, the high school marching band and the Presbyterian singers warbling carols.

Not spending Hanukkah in Santa Monica.

“Here, saying Happy Christmas and sending religiously-themed cards means aligning yourself with the put upon ‘minority’ of right wing religious nuts. It means striding into battle with a scarlet letter C on your forehead, brandishing the Bible (Old Testament, naturally) and smiting any lily-livered relativists who get in the way.”

Those associating Christmas with the Old Testament would be slightly missing the point of the whole affair, would they not?

(As, of course, many of those who wave it about rather miss the point about Christianity as well.)

Well, I’m no expert (not having been confined to church since I was a kid–and thank God for that), but if you come out of a Christmas time service peevish and and swearing and sneering at big-titted blonde bimbos out in yokel-land, it seems like maybe you’re not doing the whole church thing properly, because I’m not feeling much of a warm, peace-on-earth, love-of-your-fellow-human vibe.

brooksfoe (#45) wrote: Was your priest suggesting that Christians ought to say “Happy Hanukkah” to other Christians, rather than “Happy Holidays”? I mean, how are you supposed to know which ones are the Jews? Most of us manage to successfully conceal our horns, and in America the greed thing isn’t so much of a distinguishing factor.

It used to be possible to identify the men when we dropped trou, but between the influx of Muslims and modern medical practice, that is no longer true.

While the greed is not a distinguishing factor, facility of money mgmt probably is – e.g., we don’t celebrate Xmas.

My shiksa wife, neither blond nor big t—-d (can’t speak the name of the holy of holies), and whose atheist family was part of a peculiar schismatic Polish Catholic strain, told me that her family used to joke that Xmas was a Jewish plot to transfer money from foolish goyim into Jewish (merchants’) pockets.

I’d always thought that “Seasons Greetings” was the silliest of all of them too, until I saw Dave’s alternative at #3: “Good Yule!”

Saying “Merry Christmas” doesn’t put you on the side of the Religious Right, but ranting about a supposed “PC” conspiracy against Christianity kind of does.

That hits the nail on the head. Just keep saying “Merry Christmas”, pretty much nobody will care. This isn’t a genuine issue outside of outraged talking head land.

Caveat: Some places like universities do have policies that ban overtly Christmas-specific decorations (eg creches), but allow “season” specific decorations (eg pine tree, snowman); the mandated language there would be one of the neutered phrases. But in practice in conversation, I’ve rarely run into anyone who takes “Merry Christmas” in anything other that its intended spirit.

Well, Maria, I hope you’ve learned your lesson. If you can’t say anything nice about America, you can’t expect America to say anything nice about you.

So your priest’s “Happy Hanukkah” recommendation is just a thinly-veiled expression of anti-Semitism, and if blondes weren’t blonde your remark would be racist, and you probably don’t even know how to go to church properly, and anyway, you’re just jealous.

Have a nice day.

“In my flyover country (South Dakota), Columbus Day is now Native American Day.”

I am also from South Dakota, and I thought that was a really smart move on Gov. Michelson’s part. Why do we have a Columbus day? Well, to make Italians and other Catholics feel like part of America. In South Dakota ignorance about Native Americans and Native American alienation are far bigger problems than making South Dakota Catholics feel special. And actually a lot of schools focus on Native America history etc. on that day.

Speaking as a misanthropic American, I love the idea of a holiday greeting that sounds like it came from a Martian-Earthling phrase book. “Merry Festimas!” “Salutations to Plastic Tree Day!”

And although atheistic I listen STRICTLY to traditional German and French Xmas carols at home, simply because if I hear “Frosty the Snowman”, “Rum-a-Pum-Pum”, “Winter Wonderland”, “Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer”, or any other of the secular stuff that we are bombarded with any more times I will be sticking very large skewers into my ears.

Hey–65 posts in and someone gets it! (I’ve read entire book-length treatises on how Christmas is Roman Catholic, and also pagan, and thus we shouldn’t celebrate Christmas and Catholis are pagans.)

I’m sure that somewhere, in this vast land of opportunity, there are soem sane, normal people. I, however, have so far met interesting, committed, thought-provoking people, most of whom were on at least some topics raving loons. (And I think the ones that did might have been faking it.)

Maria said:

“The historic rationale for a non-religious December/January festival is strong (though not in California), and it’s arguable that all this Winterval nonsense is just post-post-paganism re-asserting itself as the natural order of things.”

Why not California? Mediterranean climates have winter, too. Shorter days, cooler, etc. I detect some climaticism in here. As if winter meant snow all around.

Seriously, Chanukah was built around a pagan winter solstice festival, too. With Jerusalem and San Diego being almost exactly the same latitude, that makes a lot of sense in these parts, if one stops to think about it. Which few do, of course…

d,

Wow, I’d never before realized just how WASPy a part of flyover county I grew up in. I’ve never heard Columbus referred to as Catholic and Italy was only mentioned as the place he couldn’t get funding. Where I come from Columbus brought Christianity not Catholicism.

What a country!

“Season’s Greetings” strikes me as something on a letter sent to someone you don’t see or write to very often; not something you would ever say in person. Within its written confines, it seems quite acceptable to me.

I don’t like “Happy Holidays” or “The Holidays” simply because, like Maria and unlike #42, “holidays” means something different Over Here. But then, the expression isn’t used over here, so it’s not an issue. I wouldn’t have a problem hearing or using it in America. When in Rome etc.

For me, the New Year is part of the Christmas Holidays, not a separate holiday that happens to be close by. There aren’t many Jews in Ireland, but I have said “Happy Hanukkah” on occasion.