“Beware Finland” jokes Matt Yglesias in a post about education policy. But, frankly, this is good geopolitical advice. Just ask the Soviets. Or consider the following statistics.
I’d watch out for them, if I were you.
by Kieran Healy on July 23, 2008
“Beware Finland” jokes Matt Yglesias in a post about education policy. But, frankly, this is good geopolitical advice. Just ask the Soviets. Or consider the following statistics.
I’d watch out for them, if I were you.
{ 29 comments }
Jeff Rubard 07.23.08 at 4:45 am
Oh Kieran, you know most people don’t have to worry about that because they’re not agents of a state power.
Arnaud 07.23.08 at 7:52 am
Time for a little quotation, I think!
abb1 07.23.08 at 8:32 am
Drunken socialist bastards.
Britta 07.23.08 at 1:16 pm
My grandmother gave me two pieces of advice: Never fall in love with a Norwegian and never get in a drinking contest with a Finn
richard 07.23.08 at 1:29 pm
excellent advice on both counts.
John Emerson 07.23.08 at 1:34 pm
Other Finns dominated the American Communist Party: Link. The Jews thought it was them, but it wasn’t.
Finns also founded the state of Delaware — though again, the Swedes claim that they did it. Why anyone should brag about founding the state of Delaware, I don’t know.
John Emerson 07.23.08 at 1:36 pm
The Russians had an advantage in tanks, but the Finns had a counterbalancing advantage in reindeer, which they used as pack animals during the winter war.
Nordic Mousse 07.23.08 at 4:51 pm
The officer pulled over Mr. Rytsola’s car and issued him a speeding ticket for driving 43 miles an hour in a 25-mile-an-hour zone. The fine: $71,400. The staggering sum was no mistake. In Finland, traffic fines generally are based on two factors: the severity of the offense and the driver’s income
That isn’t close to the record, which is around $225.000, though I heard it was reduced after appeal
The fines are quoted in terms of “day’s earnings” – as in: your fine is 28 days’ pay – so that everyone is punished to the same degree. After all, the law is supposed to be equal for all people and punishments equally severe, so you can’t have the financially fortunate being punished less than poorer people.
This might make us “socialist bastards”, but at least we’re fair socialist bastards
Oh Well 07.23.08 at 5:43 pm
The Winter War triggered a massive reform of the Red Army, which enabled it to survive the German invasion. So maybe it was worth doing, at least from Stalin’s point of view.
BillCinSD 07.23.08 at 6:03 pm
Given their suicide rate, i doubt we have that much to fear — although it appears they have reduced this considerably lately so maybe we should be wary
Jacob Christensen 07.23.08 at 6:16 pm
The Finns are a very efficient people – unlike some other countries where civil wars last for ages, they managed to have it over and done with in just four months. My advice is that you should not mention the Civil War at a dinner – and definitively not during a drinking contest.
Back in the good old days, the Finns also knew how to run a presidential election.
josh 07.23.08 at 6:23 pm
The stats are indeed impressive. But remember, Russia has always excelled at killing her own people — with or without other nations’ militaries as agents.
franck 07.23.08 at 6:29 pm
abb1,
How is that comment supposed to distinguish them from the Russians?
abb1 07.23.08 at 6:49 pm
They are Russians, except they like dry steam in their bathhouses and use a dialect no one understands.
Nordic Mousse 07.23.08 at 7:27 pm
They are Russians, except they like dry steam in their bathhouses and use a dialect no one understands
This misperception isn’t a problem education couldn’t solve for you, abb. Finns aren’t Russians, and don’t speak a dialect
abb1 07.23.08 at 7:38 pm
Sorry, I meant no disrespect. Stupid joke, that’s all.
jacob 07.23.08 at 10:55 pm
Not only do Finns have the right idea about speeding tickets (record as of 2004, $216,000), they have the right idea about prison too. Short version of the linked Times article is that Finland listened to criminologists and discovered that the worst thing about prison was a lack of freedom So they decided to dispense with all the other unpleasant things about prison, and lo and behold they have good results.
All of which brings up the question of why the entire world doesn’t want to be like Finland and Sweden, at least as far as organization of politics and the economy. The rich and poor both benefit from a radical lack of inequality, they’re well educated, they’re healthy, and they’re politically free. The bad things about them–weather and darkness–aren’t replicable elsewhere anyway. Unlike the otherwise similar Norway, their remarkably high standard of living isn’t floated on large amounts of oil, which suggests we all could do it. What am I missing?
r@d@r 07.23.08 at 11:01 pm
one of the best dressed people i ever met (and we swedes are no slouches) was a young finnish exchange student. he also had one of the darkest, most laconic senses of humor i ever came across. both rhetorically and literally, i would not want to cross swords with a finn in battle – probably because he or she would bristle me with arrows like a pincushion before i could even draw.
we did enjoy a few jokes at the expense of the norwegians, but for some strange reason i can’t remember any of them. (i do remember learning some of them from my one norwegian friend at the time.) nor do i recall how i ended up unconscious in my front yard naked. now that would NEVER happen to a finn. probably not to a norwegian either because they’re too boring. but of course i jest.
Britta 07.24.08 at 4:41 am
Your mention of jokes reminds me:
How do you get a Finn to smile?
You hold him upside down.
abb1 07.24.08 at 7:34 am
Oh, almost forgot: has anyone here read Martti Larni (I hope it’s the right link), The Fourth Vertebra? It’s freakin hilarious, but for some reason completely undiscovered by the Anglophone world. Weird.
abb1 07.24.08 at 7:41 am
Here’s a better link: http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/larni.htm
Jacob Christensen 07.24.08 at 12:14 pm
@Nordic Mousse + abb1: On a slightly more serious note, the real links are between the Finns and the Swedes, not the Finns and the Russians.
As it turns out, both the former Swedish PM Tage Erlander and the former England Manager Sven-Göran Ericsson descend from Finns who emigrated to Sweden waaaay back (the family is called Suhoinen). Just how many Swedes who can claim a Finnish ancestor, is an interesting question.
Many places in Norrbotten in Sweden have names that are of Finnish origin (if they are not Sami). The sauna (bastu in Swedish) is as integral a part of daily life in Northern Sweden as in Finland.
In any event, the difference between a dialect and a language is that a language has a navy and an army. That makes Finnish a language and Meänkieli a dialect.
abb1 07.24.08 at 1:29 pm
the real links are between the Finns and the Swedes, not the Finns and the Russians.
OTOH, (depending on how you define ‘Russians’, of course) various ethnicities in Karelia, who belong to the Russian Federation, are probably even more close to the Finns than the Swedes. I don’t really know if it’s true, just guessing.
John Emerson 07.24.08 at 2:06 pm
As far back as Swedes can be traced, there were Finns with them. Examples include the Rus’ and Varangians in Constantinople ca. 800 AD, and the Swedish Delaware colony in America ca. 1630 AD.
A Finn 07.24.08 at 3:37 pm
The rich and poor both benefit from a radical lack of inequality, they’re well educated, they’re healthy, and they’re politically free. The bad things about them—weather and darkness—aren’t replicable elsewhere anyway. Unlike the otherwise similar Norway, their remarkably high standard of living isn’t floated on large amounts of oil, which suggests we all could do it. What am I missing?
You need to be of Lutheran background. It’s as simple as that. The Nordic welfare states are extensions of hundreds of years of ingrained Lutheran morality. More than 90% of the Nordic countries are still quite Lutheran, even though many of them might rarely go to church anymore. The various Nordic social democratic parties can, in effect, be seen as extensions of Lutheran ideology.
franck 07.24.08 at 5:47 pm
Karelian is related to Finnish (sort of like French and Spanish) and traditionally have been the border people between Russia and Finland. (Some dialects of the languages are mutually intelligible.) But the gulf between Finns and Russians is big – different language family (Uralic versus Indo-European), different religion (Lutheran versus Russian Orthodox), different script (Latin versus Cyrillic), different orientation (Scandinavian versus Slavic).
John Emerson 07.24.08 at 8:02 pm
The most Lutheran areas of the US (MN, WS, ND) come closest to approximating Scandinavian educational (and to a degree, political) successes. MN and WS are also very Catholic, but in an Anglo-Saxon context Lutherans and Catholics are pretty similar (communitarian and not grossly anti-intellectual).
Johnny Pez 07.25.08 at 6:12 am
I for one welcome our new Finnish overlords.
future svalbard zombie 07.26.08 at 2:07 pm
Forget the Finns, watch out for Svalbard!
http://duckofminerva.blogspot.com/search/label/Svalbard
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