I have very clear memories of my last day of finals at Oxford in 1981. I was all set for my Moral Philosophy exam and was about to make my way down to the Examination Schools from the King’s Arms (where I had lunched) when I ran into occasional CT commenter Chris Y. When I told him I planned to celebrate afterwards in the traditional style (champagne sprayed across the pavement etc) he became very angry with me and lectured me sternly on the effect that I would have on “ordinary working people” on their way home. As it turned out, my then girlfriend met me outside with a multicoloured spliff (that’s my NuLab “confession”:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=0KYEC0LHF5AGDQFIQMGSFF4AVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2007/07/20/nsmith120.xml out the way …) and I went off to celebrate more discreetly. These days it seems that the Proctors (university police) “are scanning the Facebook pages of Oxford students”:http://media.guardian.co.uk/newmedia/story/0,,2128263,00.html and fining the offenders for their post-finals excesses. Students thus detected may be unable to graduate until they have paid up.
bq. Proctors emailed third-year mathematics and philosophy student Alex Hill with links to photographs of her on Facebook on Friday. “I have been charged by the proctors for breaching rules and being ‘disorderly’, on the basis of photographic evidence from Facebook,” she said. “Somehow the proctors have accessed my photos on Facebook and cited them as evidence of my misconduct, and I am being summoned to a disciplinary hearing.” “I don’t know how this happened, especially as my privacy settings were such that only my friends and students in my networks could view my photos. “It’s quite unbelievable and I am very pissed off, [I] just hope that no-one else gets ‘caught’ in this way.”
{ 34 comments }
chris y 07.20.07 at 4:06 pm
Sorry if I was unduly cross, Chris. The previous day I’d been knocked off my feet by some Brideshead wannabe who was swinging an open bottle of champaign around without looking what he was doing. It wasn’t pretty.
Ginger Yellow 07.20.07 at 4:17 pm
I’m very glad there weren’t photos on Facebook of what I did when I finished finals.
ejh 07.20.07 at 4:20 pm
Funny this should turn up – a couple of days ago I got an email from an old college friend with the title “things don’t change” containing precisely this story. (I emailed back to say that this was an absurd proposition since things very often get worse.)
Having lived and worked in East Oxford for a dozen years after taking my Finals in 1986 I’d say yes, not much gets on the locals’ nerves more than the students treating the streets as their party area and the requirement to do so either within college grounds – or not at all – isn’t so very onerous. (At the same time you can appreciate that it only happens once in their lives, but from the locals’ point of view it happens every bloody year, that’s the point.)
And if people get fined then well, you know, they can probably afford it and believe me students get more licence to behave badly than aforesaid locals, as I noted to a couple of them when we happened, one evening, to see some people trying to gatecrash a ball in my old college with a makeshift battering ram. Anybody from Blackbird Leys who did that would be in front of the magistrates in the morning on very serious charges.
That said, if the Proctors are doing this as a fishing expedition, rather than to look of evidence in support of a complaint received, then that’s surely iffy behaviour? I don’t know if it would involve any breach of rules on the part of Facebook but to my mind it’d involve a breach of ethics in their policing function.
Personally all I remember of the evening is waking up a little past eleven and realising that I was missing the Spain v Denmark game in the 1986 World Cup. I reached the JCR just in time, as I recall, to see Jesper Olsen’s fatal backpass.
almostinfamous 07.20.07 at 5:34 pm
someone please call snopes, this has been repeated with [workplace/ place of education] checks out it’s students on [social networking site popular with particular demographic] to see what they do on private time.
it’s really annoying to keep getting pestered on all these darn social networks that my lecturers (of whome 2 do not know how to properly connect to the internet, let alone have an idea of how to keep track of orkut/facebook/myspace/friendster/hi5/ad infinitum ) are keeping track of my online activities.
ejh 07.20.07 at 5:45 pm
The previous day I’d been knocked off my feet by some Brideshead wannabe
Presumably he’d read the book: transmission of the TV series didn’t begin until October.
chris y 07.20.07 at 6:40 pm
Don’t be so literalist, ejh. They were Brideshead wannabes in the 60s and 70s. The TV series merely underpinned their fantasies.
phil 07.20.07 at 6:59 pm
Almoustinfamous your post makes no sense to me.
Matt 07.20.07 at 7:35 pm
Even if something fishy was going on here (and it seems like it might have been), this is an important lesson for people that everyone should learn- when you do something illegal, don’t take photos of it and damned well don’t distribute them, even on a “private” site! Having grown up with a police officer for a father one thing I learned was that a very significant number of arrests are made because people breaking the law are stupid. Taking photos of yourself breaking the law and especially distributing them is a prime example. (Again, this is all independent of the question of whether the administrators ought to have had access or if the deeds in question should be illegal.)
hermes 07.20.07 at 7:44 pm
More facebook intrigue here: http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t34949.html
Martin Bento 07.20.07 at 8:19 pm
almostinfamous, the source is the Guardian. It probably has more basis than rumor. Maybe what you mean is that someone should tip off snopes that not all stories of this form are urban legend? I wonder if snopes would change their entry on this legend if so.
Assuming its true, I think Facebook needs to be called to account on this if their privacy policy does not disclose that they may snitch thusly. Of course, its possible that The Man got the pics the honest old-fashioned way – with a stool pigeon among the student’s friends – which is fair enough.
Ben Saunders 07.20.07 at 8:27 pm
As a current Oxford (grad) student, this has been news round here for a while – and we had another email about it from OUSU today.
Thankfully, those of us at Jesus have always held trashings – with water and champagne, rather than anything worse (flour, eggs, octopi) – in the 2nd quad of college, thus avoiding such problems.
http://www.jesus.ox.ac.uk/photoalbum/trashed.php
Walking down Merton St with a red carnation and seemingly no friends is a bit of a drawback, however.
Dave 07.20.07 at 9:48 pm
Colleges in the US occasionally resort to this too. My question is, how can disciplinary action be taken on the basis of a digital photo? As far as I know, even photos on paper aren’t considered evidence in court, but rather hearsay.
a 07.20.07 at 10:51 pm
Good for the Proctors.
Hopefully Anonymous 07.21.07 at 4:34 am
“When I told him I planned to celebrate afterwards in the traditional style (champagne sprayed across the pavement etc) he became very angry with me and lectured me sternly on the effect that I would have on “ordinary working people†on their way home. As it turned out, my then girlfriend met me outside with a multicoloured spliff (that’s my NuLab confession out the way …) and I went off to celebrate more discreetly.”
What a masterful performance of social intelligence in the crafting of these sentences. I like the Chris Y details, the girlfriend details, the ending. Presuming you can perform these ideas as well as you right them -you’re good, and would be very hard to heirarchically subordinate or socially outgroup, it seems to me.
I’d love to see external transparency in how you construct these narrative presentations -I think you’d lose nothing and I’d at least become a little more socially intelligent.
Hopefully Anonymous 07.21.07 at 4:35 am
correction: “as you right them” should read “as you write them”.
PJ 07.21.07 at 10:51 am
Matt @8, I don’t think they’re doing anything illegal, just breaking one of the University’s many silly rules. I’m not convinced they have any jurisdiction to fine people but I don’t think anyone’s had the balls to test it.
Matt 07.21.07 at 1:50 pm
Even still, pj- if you’re going to break rules (legal, administrative, or even just stupid) it’s quite a bad idea to photograph yourself doing so.
PJ 07.21.07 at 1:53 pm
Matt, I think their rapidly increasing level of inebriation probably precludes any reasoning beyond the “need beer, now!” level of complexity.
Ben Saunders 07.21.07 at 1:56 pm
I think Proctors do have the authority, but presumably only because members of the University effectively sign up to such. Almost like a Hobbesian contract in fact – you grant them absolute power, or you’re not part of it. And it’d be a real shame to get kicked out the university just before you actually get your degree…
Matt 07.21.07 at 2:46 pm
“I think their rapidly increasing level of inebriation probably precludes any reasoning beyond the “need beer, now!†level of complexity.”
I’m sure you’re right. And, in all, this is probably a good thing since if it were not for this quite stupid aspect of people a huge amount of crime, for example, would go unsolved. (I’m quite willing to bet that much, much more crime is solved by criminals doing quite stupid things- taking photos of themselves committing the crime or w/ the loot, having a car full of drugs but then running a red light, etc. than anything that could properly be called police work. Again, all besides the point as to whether these students should be fined or not, a topic about which I have no opinion.)
phil 07.21.07 at 2:50 pm
PJ, I doubt they actually posted the pictures when they were drunk.
Kenny Easwaran 07.21.07 at 2:59 pm
“my privacy settings were such that only my friends and students in my networks could view my photos.”
I thought normally the setting lets everyone in your networks (student or staff or faculty) see them, though I haven’t checked recently. It’s very easy for people to be confused by this, but it doesn’t seem that Facebook has any blame here.
lindsey 07.21.07 at 4:57 pm
No, you can make it so that only students within your network can see certain things. You can specify only students, faculty or alumni. But, the problem comes when employers/universities have other students use their accounts to dig up information… In which case, you ought to keep incremenating photos to yourself all together…
fardels bear 07.21.07 at 7:10 pm
What is the obsession people have of posting photos of themselves in a drunken state on facebook? This, as far as I can tell, is the only reason facebook exists: “Here’s me at a party with my friends! Lookit how drunk I am! Har!”
I don’t get it.
walt 07.21.07 at 7:34 pm
Somebody needs to buy fardels bear a drink…
ajay 07.23.07 at 9:03 am
he became very angry with me and lectured me sternly on the effect that I would have on “ordinary working people†on their way home.
Ah, yes. Because there are an awful lot of “ordinary working people” going home along Merton Street.
ejh 07.23.07 at 10:34 am
A fair few along the High, I think.
rea 07.23.07 at 1:03 pm
As far as I know, even photos on paper aren’t considered evidence in court, but rather hearsay.
No.
Photographs are not hearsay, becasue they aren’t statements of a witness (hearsay is an out-of-court statement offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted in the statement).
Photographs are generally admissible on foundational testimony that they accurately show what they purport to show.
Caslon 07.23.07 at 4:58 pm
The less privacy we allow ourselves, the more we seem intent on divesting ourselves of dignity as well.
Martin Bento 07.23.07 at 5:25 pm
Caslon, that makes sense to me. The less privacy we allow ourselves, the less we can maintain secrets to protect our dignity. From what I can tell, people under communism kept little of their personal lives hidden. Since they were under surveillance anyway, it was counterproductive to have secrets.
john b 07.24.07 at 9:33 am
How much of a miserable, curmudgeonly sod would you have to be – ‘ordinary working person’ or no – to feel anything other than amusement at the sight of a bunch of people who’ve just finished a reasonably unpleasant ordeal having fun by doing something silly and harmless? Even if it does occasionally involve getting flour on your shoes…
[my guess is ‘a lot’.]
ejh 07.24.07 at 9:54 am
How much of a miserable, curmudgeonly sod would you have to be – ‘ordinary working person’ or no – to feel anything other than amusement at the sight of a bunch of people who’ve just finished a reasonably unpleasant ordeal having fun by doing something silly and harmless?
You’d just have to be one who lives in Oxford, where the students get on one’s nerves for a sizeable proportion of the time and therefore lead one to take a different view from yours.
Katherine 07.24.07 at 12:30 pm
I’d guess the Cambridge equivalent to this post-graduation Oxford excess is Suicide Sunday (the Sunday after all exams are done, traditionally the day for all the garden parties and thus student drunkenness). My abiding memory of my final Suicide Sunday is walking down the street past some roadworks with workmen (on a Sunday, yes) and being regaled with something drunken by some champagne-yielding, blazer-wearing twits rolling down the same street. One of the workmen turned to me and, shaking his head, said “they’ll be running the country some day”. Sadly, I had to concur.
No particular point to this story, but it does somewhat back up the “ordinary working person” theory – i.e. seeing the braying idiots behaving like this doesn’t do much for the general impression of students.
phil 07.25.07 at 12:07 pm
And when the “ordinary working person” behaves in a similar manner they are labeled as yobs, hooligans, thugs, chavs etc. and are more likely to face criminal charges.
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