Some of us are illegal, and some are not wanted ….

by Chris Bertram on February 12, 2008

How utterly depressing to surf over to Amanda’s “excellent site”:http://flopearedmule.net/ only to discover that “Arlo Guthrie has endorsed Ron Paul”:http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/185/legendary-singer-songwriter-arlo-guthrie-endorses-ron-paul-for-president/ . I thought I’d wash this out of my head by listening to his father singing Plane Wreck at Los Gatos. Guess what? There’s not a clip of Woody singing it at Youtube, but there is one of Arlo covering it with Emmylou Harris. Did the man not listen to the lyrics? May he die of shame if he ever sings it again.

{ 36 comments }

1

Righteous Bubba 02.12.08 at 3:26 pm

His guitar has a sticker on it that says “This machine shills for fascists.”

2

Rich Puchalsky 02.12.08 at 3:48 pm

For a long time now I’ve been writing that the U.S. libertarian movement is mostly animated by racism, and that’s been pooh-poohed by the few reasonable libertarians who form part of the public face of the movement. So I have to admit that I rather liked Ron Paul, his newsletters, his Stormfront connection, and the way that his libertarian supporters mostly shrugged it off.

Nader may have thankfully killed off the kind of annoying leftie who was always too good for the impure, soiled Democrats. Maybe Paul can take the libertarians who never liked any part of government that wasn’t dedicated to defending them from the dark hordes with him as well.

3

David W. 02.12.08 at 3:52 pm

I hear Pete Seeger can still swing a pretty mean banjo…

4

P O'Neill 02.12.08 at 5:16 pm

Well, at least he didn’t endorse McCain who thinks they get $50 an hour.

5

perianwyr 02.12.08 at 5:16 pm

this land is my land, this land ain’t your land, I got a shotgun, and you don’t got one…

6

chris y 02.12.08 at 5:54 pm

OK, Woody must be spinning in his grave, but did this guy ever show any political consciousness beyond a desire to evade the draft in wartime? Capitalising on his father’s songbook doesn’t count. Dirty fuckin’ hippies often ended up on the right – look at John Perry Barlow.

7

blindjoedeath 02.12.08 at 6:17 pm

Chris,
Do you count smoking dope as political consciousness?

8

psg (London) 02.12.08 at 6:18 pm

Did Woody Guthrie ever perform this song? The music was composed 10 years after Guthrie’s poem, by Martin Hoffman.By 1958 Woody Guthrie was already very ill and in hospital.I’m by no means a Guthrie expert but hitherto had always assumed no recording by him existed hence no Youtube.

9

Randy Paul 02.12.08 at 6:19 pm

Sound like he came into Los Angeles bringing more than just a couple of keys . . .

10

Righteous Bubba 02.12.08 at 6:21 pm

OK, Woody must be spinning in his grave, but did this guy ever show any political consciousness beyond a desire to evade the draft in wartime?

Yes. Which is why it’s baffling.

Amusingly, the only entry under “Politics” on his Wikipedia entry is the Ron Paul endorsement.

11

Alan Bostick 02.12.08 at 6:57 pm

Let’s look at what Arlo Guthrie actually said:

“I love this guy,” Guthrie says in a statement released by the Paul campaign. “Dr. Paul is the only candidate I know of who would have signed the Constitution of the United States had he been there. I’m with him, because he seems to be the only candidate who actually believes it has as much relevance today as it did a couple of hundred years ago. I look forward to the day when we can work out the differences we have with the same revolutionary vision and enthusiasm that is our American legacy.”

There is a lot of room for Guthrie to distance himself from Paul’s racism and immigration positions — his quote makes it clear that he is aware of significant differences in position.

Whatever one thinks of Paul regarding his overall political views, he is the only Republican campaigning explicitly on a platform plank of ending the war and pulling out of Iraq. It is the centerpiece of his appeal to anyone who isn’t a hardcore libertarian. Paul is more definitive in his anti-war position than either Clinton or Obama on the Democratic side.

I can respect the political calculation that says the war as an issue outweighs other odious positions a candidate might hold. Would I have done what Guthrie did? No. Am I in favor of giving electoral voice anti-war Republicans and Republicans who believe in the rule of law? Yes.

Nobody has gotten Obama or Clinton to take firm stands on the rule of law, by the way.

12

Righteous Bubba 02.12.08 at 7:02 pm

There is a lot of room for Guthrie to distance himself from Paul’s racism and immigration positions

Starting at “I love this guy.”

13

Matthew Kuzma 02.12.08 at 8:18 pm

I think it’s more likely that he just hasn’t even aknowledged Ron Paul’s stance on immigration. All that dazzling talk about reforming the Federal Reserve and respecting the constitution was enough for him.

Seriously, I think most Libertarians don’t care a lick about immigration, they just want a government that will leave them alone as much as possible.

14

Righteous Bubba 02.12.08 at 8:23 pm

I think it’s more likely that he just hasn’t even aknowledged Ron Paul’s stance on immigration.

Yeah. Plus, there’s dope.

15

Chris Bertram 02.12.08 at 8:36 pm

_Did Woody Guthrie ever perform this song?_

Sure he did. You can hear it on this episode of Steve Earle’s Air America show, where it is the choice of Emmylou Harris:

http://www.steveearle.net/radio/show.php?show_id=14

16

gobineau 02.12.08 at 10:07 pm

Its not even clear that the song is pro open borders, the Wikipedia entry says its a protest against the way the news reported the accident. I sure does seem stupid to be flying them back when busses or trains were safer. As to the larger issue, we know that mass immigration lowers the wages of the poorest Americans, Englishmen, etc and adversely impacts a whole slew of public services. Why you lefties are for it is beyond me, other than pure hatred of white, largely European descended peoples and the successful societies they have created.

17

gobineau 02.12.08 at 10:11 pm

And what’s up with that ‘This Machine Kills Paleolibertarians’ on the linked site? Death threats against a group for their political beliefs? Sounds Stalinesque to me.

18

Righteous Bubba 02.12.08 at 10:23 pm

I sure does seem stupid

I am in full agreement.

19

Rich Puchalsky 02.12.08 at 10:25 pm

Paul’s chance of actually being able to do anything about stopping the war: negligible.

His ability to show that any libertarian candidate with a hope of getting even 10% support has to be a racist: priceless.

(Actually, his effect on anti-war organizing is probably negative. If you view support for Paul as indicating anti-war views, then you’re tempted to say that anti-war views top out at the level of Paul’s support, and can safely be ignored.)

And, by the way, there’s no such thing as “a government that leaves you alone as much as possible.” If you believe in that value system and are honest, you’re an anarchist — I have no trouble with anarchism, which has a long and distinguished history. Libertarians want a government that leaves white middle-class people alone as much as possible, which is not at all the same thing. Rich and poor are alike prohibited by a minarchist government from sleeping under bridges, organizing strikes for better wages, etc.

20

andrew levine 02.12.08 at 10:32 pm

As to the larger issue, we know that mass immigration lowers the wages of the poorest Americans, Englishmen, etc and adversely impacts a whole slew of public services.

No, we don’t “know” that.

21

Backword Dave 02.12.08 at 11:18 pm

Am I missing something here? I thought by convention we (democrats, leftists, etc) did not believe in the “sins of the father” being visite on subsequent generations. Should we not also believe that if the father is a good person (by our standards) we still judge the sons or daughters on their own merits? As I understand it, the folk tradition of singer sings other person’s song, does not mean that they agree with said song. Bob Dylan can sing his own repertoire and he’s fallen out with himself a few times.

Shorter me: so you like Woody Guthrie. Who cares what his son thinks?

22

Matt 02.12.08 at 11:39 pm

Andrew beat me to it but it’s certainly false to say that we “know” that “mass immigration lowers the wages of the poorest Americans, Englishmen, etc and adversely impacts a whole slew of public services.” Some fairly contentious studies seem to show a very small effect on a small population. These studies seem to involve some illegitimate methods and when those methods are taken out there is very little, if any effect left. Such effects _may_ happen in certain circumstances, but these are just the circumstances that have tended to greatly reduce immigration flows in the past and likely would do so in the future. It’s also worth pointing out that nearly all of those (not all, but nearly all) who make a big deal about immigration (of dark people) supposedly hurting the lease well all never seem to otherwise call for measures that would help the least well off. (This is so of the biggest supporters of this position in the US.) This strongly implies that the real worry is hordes of darkies, not the situation of the least well off.

23

Righteous Bubba 02.12.08 at 11:48 pm

Am I missing something here?

Yes. Arlo is a lefty folkie endorsing Ron Paul.

24

elbujo 02.13.08 at 1:54 am

That marijuana those kids are smoking these days turns their brains to mush.

25

roger 02.13.08 at 1:56 am

I wonder if Arlo Guthrie has even a clue about Ron Paul’s racial views. When you blog, especially when you go to political blogs, after a while you become hyper attuned to what the politicians do. But there’s good evidence that most people vote on a general impression. For instance, polls in Florida and elsewhere have shown that the Republicans – or those voting in the Republican primary – who are most opposed to the Iraq war are most likely to vote for McCain. Matt Yglesias had a post on this. That makes sense in terms of the impression that is given of the candidates by the press – McCain, who is considered more liberal, more mainstream, would logically be the one who was less gung ho about Iraq. Well, it doesn’t turn out to be like that in reality. I would not at all be surprised if Arlo G. saw Ron Paul say various anti-imperialist things in one of the debates and said, hell, that’s the ticket.

Of course, he’s older now, too, than when he penned his great anti-Nixon song, presidential rag.

26

Sendang 02.13.08 at 2:11 am

So maybe Guthrie compromised. With the set of candidates we have left that is inevitable. If he had, say, supported Clinton on healthcare but disagreed with her on Iraq and decided to endorse her anyhow I’m not sure all of you would be complaining so loudly.

Rich:

“(Actually, his effect on anti-war organizing is probably negative. If you view support for Paul as indicating anti-war views, then you’re tempted to say that anti-war views top out at the level of Paul’s support, and can safely be ignored.)”

Who would conclude that Paul’s level of support is equivalent to the level of opposition to the war? Obviously many (probably most) of those who make ending the war their top priority will vote in the Democratic primary. Nonetheless, Paul has successfully brought together the minority of conservatives who do want to get out of Iraq soon.

27

Righteous Bubba 02.13.08 at 2:45 am

So maybe Guthrie compromised. With the set of candidates we have left that is inevitable.

There’s compromising with candidates and there’s compromising with nuts.

28

Sendang 02.13.08 at 3:36 am

Righteous Bubba:

The endorsement came in late January. By that time it was clear that Paul wasn’t going to be the Republican nominee. If you’re looking to make a protest vote you look for different things than you do if you are looking for a viable leader for the country. Given that he isn’t going to be President the issues that he is raising are more important than his character, his old friends, etc.

By all means condemn Guthrie if you think that his endorsement helps the anti-immigration cause more than it does the anti-war cause and that compromise seems unreasonable to you. At least recognize, though, that a protest vote is often more about speaking up about some issues than about the person you’re voting for.

29

Righteous Bubba 02.13.08 at 4:45 am

By all means condemn Guthrie

I think you’re giving this far more thought than Arlo did, but fortunately we both agree that Ron Paul is a fool.

30

saurabh 02.13.08 at 2:06 pm

Nader may have thankfully killed off the kind of annoying leftie who was always too good for the impure, soiled Democrats.

Naw, he just convinced us that it was a bad idea to vote for pompous jerks. We still don’t like the Democrats any, and probably never will. Annoying, ain’t we?

31

Rich Puchalsky 02.13.08 at 4:39 pm

Nobody said that anyone should actually *like* the Democrats. I’m just glad that I will likely never again have to read a lecture about how there is no difference between the two parties, and that the Democrats are hopelessly corrupted, and that all of the mathematics of the existing U.S. electoral system that essentially guarantees that there will be two major parties who win almost all elections has to be ignored for reasons of morality, etc.

32

Gus 02.13.08 at 8:22 pm

Meh. Disappointing, but we all make mistakes. Didn’t Neil Young come out for Reagan in ’80?

33

vanya 02.13.08 at 9:59 pm

I’ve never understood the uncritical sympathy for illegal immigration on the left either. Yes, a lot of nasty racists are opposed to immigration, but that doesn’t ipso facto mean that uncontrolled immigration is a good thing. And nativists aren’t always wrong – it is fairly easy to find historical examples of immigrants taking over and uprooting the original inhabitants. America and Australia being first on the list, Palestine is a more recent example.

Clearly most opposition to immigration is driven at its root by fear – fear of losing one’s job, fear of losing one’s place in society, fear of seeing one’s children adopt an alien culture and values or, worse, seeing one’s children be unable to compete in a culture with new and different values. The lack of sympathy that affluent well educated liberals have for the fears of working class white and black Americans is disappointing. Rather than simply lecturing people not to be racist, it would probably make more sense to work towards a society where ordinary people don’t feel like they’re living on a razor’s edge and consequently look for scapegoats.

And as always one has to wonder cui bono? When both the right-wing Mexican political elites and the US business elites are united in full-throated support of immigration, don’t you have to look a little more closely at what’s really going on? I know a lot of leftists simply take the position that “if some red neck Texan is against it, than I’m for it!” but I feel the same way about any position the WSJ editorial board takes.

34

Kathryn Cramer 02.15.08 at 8:59 pm

Surely that must be reprinted from the Onion.

35

harry b 02.16.08 at 12:33 am

I think that’s right about Neil Young, and I certainly find it forgivable. This too, if Arlo repents appropriately (as Young did). Smoking dope counts as political unconsciousness, surely.

36

JET 02.16.08 at 3:23 pm

I’m *more* surprised when artists who are musically deeply conservative and opposed to innovation, change and development – like Young – come out in favor of progressive politics. Same goes for folkies, who are about the most conservative musical genre of all by its very definition.

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