Annals of Annoying Students

I have a colleague who recently had a request to change a grade from 10 years ago. The requestor had just received an opportunity to go to China as part of his job, but he had been masquerading as a college graduate and now needed the degree.

I’m surprised the student didn’t offer to wash your car or something like that Kieran. Sounding mad that yhat you need to fulfill the requirements of a class really doesn’t get the professor on your side.

“I need to have a better grade in this class…” Perhaps s/he should have thought of that while taking the damned class. Kids these days.

i want to laugh at these examples, but must recuse myself due to the number of college courses that i have failed and the melange of lame excuses and pathetic pleas for mercy that marked those failures.

we all have our low points. some of us have a lot of low points.

I admit it, I failed a student for only having turned in one of four papers and a midterm, then pretended to believe her when she wrote to me claiming to have totally turned them in, late, but before the end of the term. I’m such a softy – as soon as my students figure it out, I’m toast.

Re: the Hall of Fame..

Who wrote it? This dang internet thingy doesn’t seem to have a citation in its tubes anywhere.
And the version I can find is not quite as I remember it, to wit:

The Hall of Fame is high and wide;
It’s waiting rooms are full.
Some go in the doors marked ‘Push’;
Most, out the doors marked ‘Pull’.

(And I seem to remember the same Victorian poet wrote a verse about the toast landing on the floor, ending in “and always on the buttered side”.)
Senility is not pretty.

At least he doesn’t make any spelling mistakes, that must be worth something.

Mind you, his lack of knowledge of his own grades doesn’t exactly suggest an academian’s thoroughness of research.

The best response suggestion so far from the comments to the original post: ‘Please see me during my office hours 5 months ago to address this issue. Maybe I can grant you an extension for your extenuating circumstances, so that your second paper will be due 4 months ago.’

Priceless.

So we have “attempt to set aside time” and also “try to set aside time”. I cannot argue for this, but is it possible this is an emerging polite formulation? It seems to us old fogeys (me and perhaps others commenting) so odd. Just drop ‘attempt/try to’ and we would all like the messages more, so by the evidence that they do not do that, can the students think they are saying what is right?

Just an idea.

Frowner – This person is older than the age range you specify. But yes, that also occured to me.

Back to the original message: If this means I must complete the second assignment – this part is precious (although it’s hard to say which particular section is the best). Assuming the instructor would even consider changing the grade under such circumstances, how is the “if” appropriate here? Is the student expecting a grade change just for asking? I guess given the message overall, that may well be what the student is expecting. I like some of the suggestions people had on the original post regarding possible responses.

The “if this means I must complete the second assignment” does not really mean that the student expects to get the grade without doing that; it is an incorrectly phrased offer to fix what was one of the reasons that caused all this.

I find it hard to accept criticism of the ‘style’ of begging, when the very act – begging – predestines it to be clumsy at best, even when communicated face to face, in person, with all the non-verbal cues. Why then expect it to be done better on paper, and that too by teenagers?

Having worked on the teacher side of the student-teacher divide at a state university, this letter isn’t out of line of some of the things that I have come across. At that university, I believe the deadlines for changing grades would have been passed by now.

Some of the students put so much effort into evading the work required that if they had put just half that much effort into actually doing the work, they’d have received A’s.

I once handed in 100 pages of essays 2 years late. It was for an independent study in social psychology. I needed the class to graduate and simply hadn’t done the work. I attached a note that said something like, “I know I was completely irresponsible about this, but if there is any way you can still grade these I’d would be very grateful.”

It worked. Well, only in the sense that you can still graduate with a D in social psych :)

I had one student for Constitutional History who did very poorly on the midterm, and thereafter, never showed up for class. Nor did he turn in the research paper. Nor did he show up to take the final. Not surprisingly, when you get a 0 on two items that make up 60% of the grade, because of my cruel and vicious nature, this turned into an F.

I thought no more of it until about four months after the end of the term, when I received a very “poor, poor pitiful me” and “you are such a nasty person” email from this student. At least he wasn’t begging for a chance to turn in that research paper and take the final.

A friend teaches bonehead math at a local university. His big problem is always the very, very pretty bimbos in training who come into his office and emphasize how incredibly important it is to pass the class, and how they will do “anything”–like come over to his house and clean it, or “whatever.” His suggestion is usually that “whatever” might involve doing the homework, studying, and doing well on the tests.

#28– since both spellings, with the first “e” and without, are legitimate (Brit vs US English), another nomination will indeed be necessary….

I would respond to requests like this by asking if the student knew the Rubaiyat. Whether they did or not I would quote
“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on:nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.”

Those with a less poetic drift might note that the fat lady had already sung.

I also had a professor (in graduate school) who made it plain that (to quote him) “I do not answer e-mail from students.”

As an associate professor, I submitted an “F” on the first grade report for a freshman student who had not taken the first five weekly exams.
The student complained to the university ombudsman.
The student told the ombudsman that he had not received a class syllabus, so he had no way of knowing the course required weekly exams.
The ombudsman directed me to remove the “F” and allow the student to continue with no recorded grade because the student did not know he had to take exams.
I showed the ombudsman the class syllabus that detailed the testing criteria.
The ombudsman then said that unless I could produce a certified copy of a signed statement that the student had accepted the class syllabus on the first day of class, I would have to remove the “F” grade.
The Red Queen was correct; it took all the running I could do, to keep in the same place.

Three days ago I received an e-mail from a student that included the following:

“Recently, I found that I failed the course. Therefore, I am hereby to ask for the scheduling of a supplementary test. If not, is it possible to supersede the result by taking other philosophy course or just simply cancel out the result. Thank you for your attention and please give me any advice regarding to this issue.”

Don’t any of you see anything wrong here? Where’s the justice? So the student didn’t jump through all the prof’s arbitrary hoops. What if that guy knows his stuff backwards and forwards now? He has a right to feel irritated.

To quote Mr. Floyd, “I don’t need no ‘education'”. Except I do. Society will keep me down otherwise.

School is bullcrap.

Nyah! I STILL have college nightmares…in which I have signed up for five or six courses during the semester but have attended only two or three… In the dream, the deadline for dropping the courses without penalty is past. The courses are always located in inaccessible buildings in remote parts of campus…

Oh, man, I thought I was the only one.

It’s been almost 20 years since I was an undergrad, and I still have nightmares about exactly this scenario.

Martin, that is unbelievable! Examples like that are scary, because you can see cases like that spreading. Can you imagine the nightmare if we had to get written signatures from each student for every assignment we hand out?!

The local JUCO here has students sign a sheet passed around on the first day of class confirming that they read and understand the course requirements. Instructors only have to do it the one time and file it away for future reference, if necessary. It seems to do away with this particular variety of peskiness from students.

Posted by An individual: “To quote Mr. Floyd, “I don’t need no ‘education’”.”

Uh, Pink Floyd is a band, not a man.

Oh by the way, which one’s Pink?

The character in the movie is called Pink. I always assumed his full name was Pink Floyd.

If you ask Mr. Abe Lincoln, he might tell you that there used to be a place for the self-educated. Today you need an Official Documentâ„¢.

That kid isn’t less smart because he failed to turn in a paper, or because he was insufficiently humble towards a professor.

What’s the purpose of “education” anyway, turning in papers or increasing knowledge?

Well, if you decide that you want the certification of education represented by a university degree, you might just have to play the game by the rules. Otherwise, run wild, run free, you autodidact you!

I’ve had plenty of professors who seemingly welcomed late papers as it allowed them more time to “grade.” And I’ve never met a professor who didn’t offer extensions, though I know they exist. Changing grade is another matter entirely, however.

I have the nightmares too. Except most of the time, I’m teaching the classes rather than attending them, and I miss several. When I really taught at a college, I didn’t miss classes. No idea why that particular recurring dream is so common, but it sure seems to be.

I think the extreme humorous shock stance taken here at the request is too much. Sure, you can say no, but what’s the real problem with accepting late work at a lower credit rate? Maybe for every year late it has to be 20% better to get the same grade ;)

Late, but well done, work in real life, is often far more valuable than on time, adequately but slipshodly done work. In real life you have to maintain your code, you have the potential of second and third and subsequent printings of your book… the endeavors that favor doing it adequately on time are relatively limited.

I agree that the rhetoric in the letter is inappropriate to the situation. Maybe I’ve just been out of academia too long to see the point in the generalized rejection. What would be wrong, in theory, of giving students unlimited time to turn in work, and withholding their grades till it was all turned in? I’m probably missing something terribly obvious.

Hi,

In the real world, you either do the work well and turn it in on time, or you’ll probably flunk out.

Sorry, no appeal, no mercy.

That’s why we call it the real world.

If you don’t flunk out, you lucked out, even though you didn’t deserve it. Somebody screwed up. Don’t count on it ever happening again.

Have a nice day!

Antti

As an undergrad at a first-tier university to remain nameless, a first-year professor had a student in two of his classes who stopped attending classes after the midterm, and did not complete the final or the paper. This professor pulled me and another senior/good student aside after class asking if he can just fail the guy, or if he has to jump through certain hoops, what consequences he might face, and whether this was typically done. We both said “Fail him, he didn’t bother to do most of the coursework. You have both the power and justification to do so.”

However, I think there is a difference between people asking for a better grade when they don’t bother to do the work, and people who are trying hard asking for extensions or makeups. When I eventually TA (to the extent to which TAs have discretion over these things, and on deadlines they often do in practice at my institution, especially on minor assignments) and if I eventually become a professor, that distinction will probably remain important to me.

I think you/we might be taking that student’s email too seriously. The student might merely have thought “I know this email is lame, but why not take a shot? The worst the professor can do is to say ‘no'”

My students always test my boundaries where there are low costs and no potential penalties for doing so. After all, what do they have to lose by it?