I bet many of you are indignant about Kevin Drum’s recent dismissal of the Swift Boat Veterans Who Served Sorta Near Kerry For Truth. So indignant that only white-hot Gibletsian rage could cool your indignity. Actual quote:
GIBLETS: Kerry get down here immediately this is Giblets! We are bein attacked by… monkeys! Viet Cong cyborg monkeys! An we need your help!
JOHN KERRY: “I’m John Kerry, blah blah blah! I cannot help you Giblets because I am too busy gettin intentionally shot in the arm so I can get out of Vietnam!”
GIBLETS: Damn you Kerry that is like desertion from duty! Like way worse than say skippin out of your service in the Alabama National Guard!
JOHN KERRY: “Well screw you Giblets and screw America too! Now I will smoke pot and commit atrocities and plan for a day when I can raise taxes on everybody!”
GIBLETS: Nooo! Daaamn youuu Kerry!
FAFNIR: Giblets why are you talkin to a picture of John Kerry taped to a Barbie doll?
GIBLETS: Goway Fafnir you are messin everythin up!
Read the whole thing: advantage blogosphere!!!
{ 25 comments }
Lewis Hyde 08.06.04 at 3:22 pm
This is from a piece by Michael Kranish in the Boston Globe today (August 6) in regard to the veterans attacking Kerry:
…Yesterday, a key figure in the anti-Kerry campaign, Kerry’s former commanding officer, backed off one of the key contentions. Lieutenant Commander George Elliott said in an interview that he had made a ”terrible mistake” in signing an affidavit that suggests Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star….. The affidavit was given to The Boston Globe by the anti-Kerry group to justify assertions in their ad and book.
Elliott is quoted as saying that Kerry ”lied about what occurred in Vietnam . . . for example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back.” ….
Yesterday, reached at his home, Elliott said he regretted signing the affidavit and said he still thinks Kerry deserved the Silver Star.
”I still don’t think he shot the guy in the back,” Elliott said. ”It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I’m the one in trouble here.”
Elliott said he was no under personal or political pressure to sign the statement, but he did feel ”time pressure” from those involved in the book. ”That’s no excuse,” Elliott said. ”I knew it was wrong . . . In a hurry I signed it and faxed it back. That was a mistake.”
des von bladet 08.06.04 at 3:26 pm
I dunno, out of context it lacks a green an purple sort of something.
(Are there really persons which neglect to read Fafblog? Bad, silly persons! Read Fafblog! It is, after all, the world’s only source for Fafblog!)
bull 08.06.04 at 3:59 pm
The level of hypocrisy on this issue is really getting on my nerves. When Vietnam was underway, avoiding the draft was normal. Reverence for people’s service in Vietnam was not normal. Ever since the war, there has never, ever, ever been the slightest inclination on the left to revere service in Vietnam.
Now, Big John with the Big Voice comes along. He served (what was it, 4 months or 5?) in Vietnam and good God amighty you people are just so proud of him. He’s so brave and strong and perfect and wonderful. Oh, what a warrior! A brave! Slayer of multitudes! A regular Achilles! Only without the heel!
And you’re so, so righteous in your indignation that W didn’t serve. Booooo! Coward! Pantywaist! Thumb sucker!
Please, cut the crap, will you?
cleek 08.06.04 at 4:08 pm
Hey you damned Democrats, put down our wedge!
christopher ball 08.06.04 at 4:26 pm
It seems that the SBVT people are other Swift boat “officers-in-charge,” so when they say that they “served with Kerry” what they mean is that their tours in Vietnam overlapped with his, not they necessarily served on a boat with him. Most seem to base their remarks not on anything Kerry did in Vietnam but over his protesting when they returned.
The only issues that they do raise that might have some validity is that Kerry has not released all his war records.
dsquared 08.06.04 at 4:35 pm
I maintain the view that there are some things in life that can be faked and some that can’t, that dragging someone out of the water under gunfire is one of the ones that can’t, and that the American electorate is, by and large, intelligent enough to know the difference. Which would point to the conclusion that the more “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth” bang on, the sillier they look.
JP 08.06.04 at 4:58 pm
I maintain the view that there are some things in life that can be faked and some that can’t, that dragging someone out of the water under gunfire is one of the ones that can’t, and that the American electorate is, by and large, intelligent enough to know the difference.
Well, two out of three ain’t bad, D^2.
p.lukasiak 08.06.04 at 5:08 pm
I doubt that Kerry would be making an issue of his military experience were it not for Shrub’s attempt to exploit the 9-11 attacks for political gain…
Paul 08.06.04 at 5:13 pm
A regular Achilles! Only without the heel!
Oh, Bush more than makes up for it. He’s all heel.
Iron Lungfish 08.06.04 at 5:30 pm
You’ve gt a point, Bull, except that sudden reverence for Vietnam duty didn’t start with John Kerry – it started with the right’s attacks on Bill Clinton in ’92 (and throughout his presidency – he never lost the draft-dodger label). The only real difference is that Democrats have started to use this tactic as well (pointing out the draft dereliction of Bush, Cheney, Limbaugh, etc., which becomes all the more ironic when you consider they supported> the war).
This is bad but necessary politics for a number of reasons, all stemming from the fact that it’s been the Democrats who’ve been running away from Vietnam for thirty years for fear of being “McGovernized” as “antiwar” and therefore weak on national security, when in fact this was a opportunity for the left and the antiwar movement in general to claim national security as their own. Knee-jerk hawkism had just failed in the most spectacular way possible, and its banner was being carried by a president about to be brought down in the most notorious corruption scandal in American history.
Instead, the Dems pussied out. They got a political boost from Watergate, but no real ideological boost from the basic fact that, at the time of the fall of Saigon, most Americans would, knowing in ’72 what they knew then, elected an antiwar president. Hence thirty years of the Democrats’ own Vietnam syndrome, leading ultimately to Clintonian triangulation and appeasement, and the necessity of touting a nominee’s war hero past at every turn while saying nothing of his antiwar activist past.
Doctor Memory 08.06.04 at 6:39 pm
The only issues that they do raise that might have some validity is that Kerry has not released all his war records.
Er, except that he did. Months ago.
praktike 08.06.04 at 6:40 pm
bull, wow, you mean politicians are hypocritical and self-serving?
wow.
wood turtle 08.06.04 at 7:14 pm
By his own admission, Giblets is a worthless, pond scum boat show attendee and Vietnam era movie watcher, period. Okay forget the worthless and pond scum. He was probably born in 1980.
What has Giblets done for the war effort lately? There are plenty of guys still bravely fighting the Communists, part time, from behind their living room couches and out by their backyard barbecue grills. No medals or paychecks for it either.
bull 08.06.04 at 7:48 pm
praktikely wow – I’m most assuredly not just talking about politicians. Commenters on sites such as CT are guilty, guilty, guilty too.
peter ramus 08.06.04 at 7:48 pm
Dear bull—
You say that it was normal to avoid the draft during Vietnam, and as one who was drafted, it certainly felt abnormal for me to be taken up, so maybe you’re right about that.
But it was certainly never standard operating procedure in those times for the right wing to shower contempt on people in the military. Far from it. Their attitude was in fact loaded with all the uncomfortably religious overtones that your use of the word “reverence” implies. Currently, as John McCain, Max Cleland, and now John Kerry can testify, the tactic of showering contempt on past military service seems a commonplace of Republican attack politics.
What’s up with that, bull? Where’d all the reverence go?
And, wood turtle, lay off Giblets. He has issues, sure, but his heart (or equivalent organ) is in the right place. I think.
bull 08.06.04 at 7:54 pm
Peter – I didn’t defend scummy tactics by the right. I pointed out that this sudden hard-on by the left for the man in uniform is more than a little odd.
peter ramus 08.06.04 at 8:06 pm
Its all a trick, bull. Read your Fafblog.
Another Damned Medievalist 08.06.04 at 8:53 pm
Oh, Bull? Your idea of the left may be correct in terms of what was the norm for the VietNam era, but you know, a lot has happened since then. Oddly enough, lots of us lefties who were raised by lefties during that era were also raised to value public service and public servants. We were also taught by our parents (on the right and left, in my case) to value the Constitution and to question and participate in our government.
Those values don’t belong to the right. They never did.
Kerry’s service wouldn’t be an issue at all, except for the fact that the right used Clinton’s draft-dodging against him and then wangled a couple of draft-dodgers into the highest offices in the country. I also think that the reverence you see for Vietnam vets is not all that reverent. I certainly don’t get why anyone would have enlisted to go to Nam, except maybe that it’s a hell of a lot better to enlist and be an officer than get dragged into the jungles as a grunt.
That doesn’t mean that we can’t give someone who did his job well his due. Kerry did what he thought was right at the time. His actions weren’t particularly odd for someone raised in his social class and in a family with some tradition of military service and duty to his country. By all reputable reports, he was a good officer and leader, and was loyal to his men. Despite coming to the conclusion that the war was wrong, he finished out his time and then tried to change things. To me that’s something to respect. What’s surprising is that Bush, coming from a somewhat similar background, has managed to avoid anything that smacks of duty to country, although he certainly has down the duty to class and political party pretty well.
Carlos 08.06.04 at 9:35 pm
Sometimes I wonder how these media spin events would play out if the party affiliations were reversed. (Although it is a little hard for me to imagine the incumbent even as an _alleged_ war hero, unlike his father, or even Dick Cheney.) Can you imagine the shrieks of outrage from the Reds then?
Along the same lines, it has crossed my mind that this would be a perfect time for Bush to have an affair with an intern. After all, he’s been under a lot of pressure over the last few months, and I’m sure there are some things that Laura just won’t do. In light of the known temptations of the job, I think the White House and all associated personnel should be checked for inappropriate semen.
daithi mac mhaolmhuaidh 08.06.04 at 11:35 pm
Anyone who doubts the authors of that thing are certifiable lunatics, or whatever Drum called them, needs to read this.
vernaculo 08.07.04 at 1:58 am
Credit Achewood
paul 08.07.04 at 5:40 am
Bull needs to take his anger management medicine and then perhaps he can handle the fact that Kerry served 2 tours in Vietnam, one year on the USS Gridley and his more well-known 4 month tour on Swift boat duty.
As far as I can tell, the president did complete his national guard service, but he didn’t do an iota more than the minimum required. I wish both sides would leave this alone, or at least work from the facts, but that seems unlikely.
It seems that for some, the Nixon/Vietnam era is like the Civil War in parts of the South: it’s not over, not even close to it. As noted all over the place, the folks making these allegations against Kerry were Nixon’s minions back in the day: by no means are they disinterested seekers of truth.
wood turtle 08.07.04 at 6:30 am
peter ramus:
I refuse to lay off Giblets until he admits that he has been led astray by false boat soldiers and goes to confession.
I am praying that his heart, or as you say, equivalent organ, will lead him to the right decision. Perhaps the equivalent organ will have more of an influence.
Bob 08.07.04 at 7:21 am
Bull –
I was barely too young to be drafted, but in my circle of four close friends, we counted four older brothers who served in Vietnam.
My little band was everything that the Right portrays the Left to be – dope-huffing, self-absorbed, promiscuous (in spirit, at least), long-haired, anti-authoritarian, and yadaya. As the draft approached us, we talked about Canada. Yet when the big brothers came home (and they all did), we held them, if not in awe, at least in deep and mysterious respect.
They were very different men, but they shared a trait that we little brothers admired and tried our best to emulate – they just weren’t scared of anything that our town, our life, showed us.
We hated the war, hated Nixon, hated the pigs, hated (in the style of the day) whatever was handy, but we loved those big brothers.
It’s true that we didn’t idolize them for fighting that war. We idolized them for having the guts to do it, and for their humanity and their (mucho macho) grace when they came home.
Now are you going to call me a hypocrite for thinking that John Kerry reminds me of my best friend’s big brother?
Brian Macker 08.07.04 at 11:06 pm
I looked into this Kerry war record stuff and it doesn’t look so good for him.
Kerry lied about being in Cambodia before congress during the Nixon admin however Nixon wasn’t president at the time and Kerry wasn’t in Cambodia.
Two of his purple hearts are for self inflicted wounds. Once by thorn sized fragment from a grenade he launched at a rocky shoreline. Solved with a tweezer and a bandaid. The second time he used a precussion grenade to blow up a boatload of rice and while running away got peppered in the butt with rice kernels.
Several soldiers at the rescue where Kerry pulled out the person from the water said they were not under fire at the time. In fact several other people had fallen in the water and were pulled out by the other boats. No one else got a medal for it.
The retraction story in the Boston Globe was written by a fellow who has written a biography for Kerry and was writing for another book by Kerry. The solder claims he was totally misquoted in the article and stands by his original affidavid.
The other officers were serving with Kerry because the boats worked together. There was one officer per boat. Kerry was an officer. Therefore the DNC spin is merely that they didn’t serve under Kerry in the same boat.
Kerry has admitted to commiting war atrocities before the senate. Other solders have testified to Kerrys atrocities. He commanded a group that went into a village slit the throats of some civilians then gunned some others down.
His commanding officer disliked his behavior so much that he
Even Kerry’s bio written by that “reporter” states that he shot that lone retreating teen Vietcong in the back. Not exactly wrong but not something to get a medal for either. The vietcong was running away with a grenade launcher in his hand.
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