English as she is spoke

by Kieran Healy on January 22, 2005

“Josh Chafetz”:http://oxblog.blogspot.com/2005_01_16_oxblog_archive.html#110641393348933333 says:

bq. NEW HAVEN IS FORECAST for 10-15 inches of snow tonight.

Is this a colloquial construction I’m unfamiliar with, or just backwards?

{ 26 comments }

1

TonyB 01.22.05 at 10:14 pm

I have heard this construction used by the weather reporter on one of my local TV stations (though not with respect to snow, since we’re in the Sacramento valley). I think it’s an attempt to avoid repetition of the same sentence structure, with unfortunate consequences.

2

Josh Chafetz 01.22.05 at 10:18 pm

Hmmm, I thought it was an appropriate colloquial construction. A Google search for “is forecast for” does generate a fair number of hits.

3

Andrew Boucher 01.22.05 at 10:23 pm

Sounds okay to me.

4

Backword Dave 01.22.05 at 10:26 pm

It’s journalese: “Who, What, Where, When, How”, as I was taught the rudiments of Hackery many years ago. Here New Haven is a ‘Who” because it’s the people in New Haven who will care.

5

ogged 01.22.05 at 10:43 pm

I’ve heard this too. Always with reference to weather, I think.

6

Will Baude 01.22.05 at 11:23 pm

Josh,

It looks like most of the examples in the google search you mention are of the reverse form– a foot of snow is forecast for New Haven rather than the other way round. (At least, 19 of the first 20 hits are of this form, and I didn’t check further). The thing to come being forecast for the place it is coming, rather than the place being forecast for the thing.

Presumably this is what Mr. Healy is nitpicking about, although why I have no idea.

7

Kieran Healy 01.23.05 at 12:01 am

Presumably this is what Mr. Healy is nitpicking about

“Nitpick” is an “irregular verb”:https://www.crookedtimber.org/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=6&search=irregular+verb of course. “I attend to details, You focus on minutiae, He nitpicks.”

although why I have no idea.

It still amazes me when someone with a blog says this about a blog post by someone else. Especially someone who has “just posted”:http://WWW.crescatsententia.org/archives/2005_01_22.html#004953 about how many gas stations there are in the US and what the largest shark is.

8

washerdreyer 01.23.05 at 12:32 am

Nitpicking an accusation of in a comment thread for a post, the entire content of which is to question whether someone else’s post is grammactical. The other post is one sentence long and based on the premise that repeating a weather report is worthwile and/or interesting. This seems like the paradigm of the blogosphere to me. And I for one wouldn’t have it any other way.

9

Kieran Healy 01.23.05 at 12:38 am

10

Ajax Bucky 01.23.05 at 12:45 am

I’m sorry, did you say something?
I was still reading theat marvelous sentence above, which begins
“The thing to come being forecast for the place it is coming…”

11

Luc 01.23.05 at 2:55 am

No nothing bout English, but google gave me these:

Weather this week is forecast for normal temperatures

And a lot of rain.

But the forwards of CT beat the the Oxblog backwards with 5610 vs 38.

12

P.M.Lawrence 01.23.05 at 4:27 am

I’ve heard that journalese checklist too. I’ve often wondered why they only use five of Rudyard Kipling’s “serving men” and don’t care about the question “why”.

13

David Weman 01.23.05 at 8:57 am

They do, at least that’s what they teach us budding Swedish journalists.

14

Jim Miller 01.23.05 at 12:31 pm

I can’t be the only person who chuckled on seeing “Chaftez” in that odd “forecast line.

And, no, I won’t claim that I always avoid awkward sentences and misspelled names in my own work.

15

Kieran Healy 01.23.05 at 2:11 pm

Whoops, that’s fixed now.

16

Uncle Kvetch 01.23.05 at 3:15 pm

I found the “New Haven is forecast” construction somewhat odd. I think of “forecast” as functioning pretty much identically to “predict,” syntactically speaking, and I can’t get my head around “New Haven is predicted for 15 inches of snow.”

Weather this week is forecast for normal temperatures

Now that’s even weirder.

17

jet 01.23.05 at 3:46 pm

Kieren,

Maybe you meant “regular” instead of “irregular”?

“Nitpick” is an irregular verb of course. “I attend to details, You focus on minutiae, He nitpicks.”

How do you conjugate “nitpicks”?

18

Will Baude 01.23.05 at 5:15 pm

It still amazes me when someone with a blog says this about a blog post by someone else. Especially someone who has just posted about how many gas stations there are in the US and what the largest shark is.

There is a difference between criticism (which I didn’t intend) and genuine puzzlement (which I did). We each post about whatever tickles our fancy, to be sure, but if there is some point to this post that I am missing, and you don’t mind sharing it, I’d love to be let in on the game. If not, that’s fine too.

19

Kieran Healy 01.23.05 at 5:22 pm

Maybe you meant “regular” instead of “irregular”?

No, I meant “irregular.”

but if there is some point to this post that I am missing, and you don’t mind sharing it, I’d love to be let in on the game.

I’m not trying to game anyone, Will. The point of the post was right there in the question it asked. I genuinely wanted to know whether some people regularly used the verb “to forecast” in the way Josh did in his post, or whether this was just — as it seemed to me at first reading — a mistake, with the subject and object of the sentence in the wrong place.

20

Will Baude 01.23.05 at 5:42 pm

Okay. Thoughts on the answer? It looks like Josh’s use was intentional, and a smattering of google hits are in the same vein. Do you have some sense from these comments (or emails you’ve received, etc.) how widespread the use is?

21

Kieran Healy 01.23.05 at 5:48 pm

Well, it seems like some TV weather forecasters use it. But if you ask me, I still think it’s backwards.

22

Kevin Donoghue 01.23.05 at 6:49 pm

Jet/Kieran:

I think nitpick is a regular verb, but intransitive.

Will you settle for that?

23

Kevin Donoghue 01.23.05 at 6:55 pm

Delete that comment, I hadn’t followed the link to Yes, Minister.

24

Dan Simon 01.23.05 at 10:39 pm

Maybe the idiom, “location forecast For weather”, is the brainchild of the same now-legendary headline writer who came up with “‘Newsworthy Comment’: Official”, which any literate person would rewrite as, “Official: ‘Newsworthy Comment'”.

25

jet 01.24.05 at 2:31 am

Thanks Kevin.

But it was quite amusing to have the person who called me functionally illiterate argue this point with me.

Thanks for the lesson Dr. Healy :P

26

HP 01.24.05 at 8:14 pm

The past tense of “cast” is “cast.” Maybe “forecast” is being used in this case as some kind of preterite imprecative. Perhaps it is formed as an analogue of “forsworn” or “forgone.” Examples:

“I am forsworn for England, my liege.”

“We are forgone for provisions as of Wednesday next.”

“The weather is forecast for snow, my liege.”

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