This “common trope”:http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/05/obamas_new_capitalism.php (this particular example is taken from Marc Ambinder) in discussions over the auto industry seems to me to be based on faulty logic.
Bondholders are kicking and screaming, but it appears as if General Motors Corp. is headed for an orderly bankruptcy, and the Obama administration is about to be handed the keys to a venerable corporate institution. Again. And again, the administration seems to be rewriting the rules of capitalism to fashion a deal to its liking. Purists — and virtually every academic economist one happens to encounter — wonder what happened to the once inviolate principle of rewarding risk-takers. Unsecured creditors will get less of a stake in the new GM than its employees, and you can forget about poor unadorned stockholders.
As I understand it (commenters may have different rationales), the idea that people should be rewarded for taking risk is that people making risky investments should receive higher returns on those investments in order to compensate for those risks. In capitalist systems, you often see the argument being made that the owners of capital should receive high returns on their capital to compensate them for the risk that the companies they have invested in go bust. But this does _not_ mean that capital owners should have first bite at the cherry if the company _does_ go bust. The risk that the company goes bust – and that capital owners lose their shirts in the process – is precisely the risk that they are supposedly already been compensated for. In other words, you can’t have it both ways – getting special compensation for the risk that you will lose your money if the firm goes bust implies that you shouldn’t get special compensation in the event that the company does go bust. Or you wouldn’t have been taking any risks in the first place.
So I simply don’t see that this cod-Schumpeterian argument makes any sense. A real Schumpeterian, I suspect, would be saying that no-one should get compensated at all, either capitalists or workers, and that the companies should be allowed to go bust (but that of course is a quite different argument). You could perhaps make a case on normative grounds that people who took a higher risk should get a bigger share of whatever is left. But you would have to take account of the fact that it isn’t only owners of capitalists who take these risks. Workers in GM have made risky investments themselves – in specialized skills that are difficult to sell on the market – and these risks were arguably greater than the ones taken by capitalists (bankers and investors, for all their travails, are surely doing better than unemployed auto workers).
{ 46 comments }
Chris 05.29.09 at 9:15 pm
Theoretically, a bondholder is a lender, not an owner. But in practice, corporate bonds are priced depending on the estimated degree of risk – risky bonds have higher returns – and secured by the assets of the corporation, which the bondholders can examine before buying bonds issued by that corporation. So it still makes no sense to shield the bondholders from the risk, even when it turns out they misunderestimated it.
“Poor unadorned stockholders” should indeed take the first losses precisely because they get to keep *all* the profits above fixed salaries and bond interest when things are going well. And bondholders should take the second losses because their bonds already priced in a risk premium. Employees and vendors (such as parts companies and utilities) should reasonably expect to have the most senior claims because they’re not receiving any risk premium – *any* hit they take is uncompensated and therefore unjust.
lemuel pitkin 05.29.09 at 9:21 pm
I love it! Risk bearers should be compensated — by not having to bear risk.
Thomas 05.29.09 at 9:27 pm
Secured lenders made (and make) loans based, in part, on the priority they have in bankruptcy. A secured lender is capital, but is not equity capital. Equity capital doesn’t get the first bite–they come last, after everyone else, including trade creditors. Secured creditors go first, because the bankruptcy code says they go first (presumbably because we want to encourage secured lending). That’s the background principle, and that’s how the risk was priced. Secured lending is less lucrative and less risky than equity investing. The risk that a secured lender will be demoted in favor of junior creditors is not a risk that is priced into the loan, and not one that the lender has been compensated for.
Thomas 05.29.09 at 9:32 pm
Chris I think has it half-right–he at least recognizes that there is an existing priority scheme, and suggests adopting a different one. We could have an argument about it, I’m sure, and examine all sorts of evidence and conjecture and models and all the rest, and then Congress could write legislation and pass it and the president could sign it, and then we’d have a new bankruptcy code and people would know to factor that new code into their lending decisions. Or we could allow the current code to work for most situations and make ad hoc exceptions to it when politically powerful interests desire a different result.
Jamie 05.29.09 at 9:41 pm
First bite at the cherry??
Henry 05.29.09 at 9:50 pm
Thomas, Ambinder rather obviously isn’t making a technical argument about junior versus senior debt or secured versus unsecured debt – he is making an argument about whether or not stockholders and unsecured debtors should be compensated by the government when their company goes down the toilet, along the purported lines of the “once inviolate principle of rewarding risk-takers.”
david 05.29.09 at 10:00 pm
Ambinder doesn’t know what he’s talking about. The tip-off being “every academic economist you happen to run across.” God forbid I’m ever subject to listening to those offhand conversations about the rules of capitalism.
The whole thing ought to be a reminder that the “rules of capitalism” is just a way of saying “I’m uneasy thinking about the way things really work.”
stostosto 05.29.09 at 10:00 pm
I love it! Risk bearers should be compensated—by not having to bear risk.
This.
bjk 05.29.09 at 10:11 pm
Whatever is in the terms of the contract. Capitalism. It works, bitches.
omega Centauri 05.29.09 at 10:15 pm
I love it! Risk bearers should be compensated—by not having to bear risk
If the goal is a system that encourages a healthy degree of risk taking, then some combination of insuring either a big upside potential -and/or mitigation of downside risk could be proposed. A rational investor would look at the probability distribution of the outcomes, and determine if such an investment meets his criteria. Of course changing the rules post-facto is always problematic.
Thomas 05.29.09 at 10:16 pm
Henry, I just don’t see where you get that. Compensated by the government? Where is that in what Ambinder wrote? No, Ambinder is focused on exactly what he should be, relative priority to the assets of the company. That’s why he’s talking about “unsecured” creditors, and “secured” creditors, and “stockholders” Those are relevant technical categories for priority in bankruptcy. And that’s what the dispute has been about: will bondholders, whose claims are secured by all of the assets of the company (the plants, the inventory, the raw materials, the business itself) get paid the full value of their claims, or will some of that value be allocated to others whose claims have lower priority in bankruptcy? No one is asking the government to supply some new pool of funds to bail out the bondholders, only to allow them to have their legal remedy.
omega Centauri 05.29.09 at 10:17 pm
How do these bloody strikeouts get into my comments! I put in no html, and the preview doesn’t show them! Perhaps my editing to correct grammar or spelling is introducing something odd?
dsquared 05.29.09 at 10:24 pm
That’s why he’s talking about “unsecured†creditors, and “secured†creditors, and “stockholders†Those are relevant technical categories for priority in bankruptcy.
No, Ambinder’s “inviolate principle of rewarding risk-takers” specifically says that equity holders ought to have positive value in a bankrupt company. Which is obviously wrong, and the fact that I can’t say with certainty that he might not have found one or two “academic economists” to say the same thing is a sad indictment of the status of the profession in the era in which Nobel Laureates can’t get simple Ricardian Equivalence sums right.
Thomas 05.29.09 at 10:32 pm
dd, where does he say that, specifically? I’m looking for a quote more specific than a reference to rewarding risk-takers, which can be twisted or misinterpreted. As context, note that he starts by saying “Bondholders are kicking and screaming.” Not stockholders. And he further describes the complaint in detail: “As in the deal with Chyrsler’s bondholders, the administration muscled its way through the negotiations and used its considerable leverage to convince secured debtholders — the highest class of investors — to accept a fixed return that was significantly less than many of those investors had expected when they put money into the falling company. Who benefits? The question isn’t very apt, because everyone is losing something. But, on balance, the unions are getting a better deal.”
Henry 05.29.09 at 10:37 pm
umm, Thomas, no. That is very obviously not what Ambinder is arguing. He is not saying at any point – “Bankruptcy proceedings have a tried and established way of dealing with the various claims of different actors and we should stick to it.” He is explicitly saying that “the principles of capitalism require that the bearers of risk should be rewarded, and those who took risks are getting screwed.” I do hope you understand that there are rather important differences between the premises of those two arguments, especially in a situation where the future of GM depends directly on large tranches of continued government support.
He’s sticking up for (his words, verbatim) the “poor, unadorned stockholders” who are getting nothing. If you can point me to the principles of bankruptcy law under which the poor stockholders should get first dibs as risk-bearers, I’d be entirely fascinated to read them. And for bonus points, you can explain the relationship between Ambinder’s suggestion that the bearers of the highest risk should have priority in receiving rewards in these situations, and the actual priorities of bankruptcy courts, which as I understand them, tend quite emphatically in the opposite direction (those who bear the highest risk come last).
Henry 05.29.09 at 10:41 pm
And the debtholders for their part have the legal option of course, of taking the high road, refusing government bailouts and conditions placed thereupon, and taking their chances with the bankruptcy courts. I am not seeing any indications of enthusiasm on their part.
Bernard Yomtov 05.29.09 at 10:45 pm
once inviolate principle of rewarding risk-takers.
There is no such inviolate principle. Risk-takers get bigger returns than others when the risks in question pay off, not regardless of what happens. Ambinder seems to think that risk-taking is sufficient to earn large returns, rather than just necessary.
Or, what Lemuel Pitkin said.
John Quiggin 05.29.09 at 10:53 pm
About the only point where Ambinder’s piece suggests a divergence from the standard order is that the rule by which workers are treated as ordinary unsecured creditors is going to be replaced by one in which they get higher priority than unsecured creditors in return for a range of concessions from their unions regarding future wages and working conditions. This seems both desirable as a general change (Australia has moved to put workers ahead of unsecured creditors in various ways) and obviously necessary in this particular case if the government is going to put public money into the business.
Otherwise, what Henry said.
David Wright 05.29.09 at 11:36 pm
The risk argument is a straw mand and a red herring. As Henry implies, there should be no distinction between the claims of the bondholders and the UAW. If Henry will look at the Administration’s perfered plan, he will see that it does not follow this principal. The UAW is owed ~$20B and is supposed to get ~$10B in cash and ~40% of the reorganized company. The bondholders are owed ~$30B and are supposed to get no cash and ~10% of the reorganized company. Here’s hoping that a bankruptcy judge teaches the Obama administration a lesson about fairness and the primacy of contract and bankruptcy law over politcal goals.
This is not, by the way, about unpaid wages, which U.S. bankruptcy already privleges above other unsercured claims. It’s about funds owed to the pension and retiree healthcare trust. Someone want to explain why the law should favor the UAW retirees over the bondholder retirees?
Thomas 05.30.09 at 1:52 am
Henry, might I ask why, if it’s so bloody obvious, you are forced to invent quotes rather than supply the bits of the article that say what you say it says?
Do you realize that the word “stockholders” appears but once in the article? Wouldn’t that ordinarily be a problem for your reading, which is that the article is about stockholders?
It is absolutely the case that the GM’s operations are going to require continued governmental support? How is that relevant? There is liquidation value, which the debtholders have a right to.
I find it hard to believe the incredible misreading you’ve engaged it, except that I’ve seen it before. That and the closing of ranks after being called out for a snarky and ill informed and ill thought out post. What an impressive display. (I’m still wondering why you insist on tripping over a few words here, when apparently this is a common trope. Perhaps you’ll point to other, clearer examples. )
John, you refer to rules and I’m wondering if you know that, in the US, the priority rules are set forth in the US Code, which continues to read as it did last year and the year before. I’m also wondering what you mean by “rule”, since it’s clear that in the thousands of other bankruptcies going on in the US right now, the ordinary rules apply. Also, as before, I’m not clear why you think it’s relevant that the government is putting money in. How does that affect the priority rules, which are about the claims on the residual estate, not about claims about the reorganized enterprise after exiting bankruptcy?
You’re certainly right that many of the debtholders have no interest in pursuing their legal remedies. But that shouldn’t be surprising, because many of them are in fact simply an alter ego of the Obama administration. BofA and Citi and other banks similarly situated haven’t any choice but to go along. Others have been threatened, explicitly in some cases and implicitly in others.
Henry 05.30.09 at 2:35 am
Thomas – dunno if I should be casting around aspersions of incredible misreadings and such if I were in your shoes here. Although, I wouldn’t myself return the favour by describing your rapidly expanding ink cloud of indignation, misdirection and expostulation as an ‘incredible display’ – more the common or garden stuff we’ve come to expect from you over the years. I can’t think why you bother really – you obviously aren’t arguing in good faith, and you can’t actually _believe_ much of the guff you present to us.
Thomas 05.30.09 at 2:45 am
Henry, just link to one of the other examples–this is a common trope. Or email Marc, ask him what he meant. Or supply an actual quote from the article, rather than an invented one. I mean, if you’re on solid ground here, it won’t be a problem to back it up.
Or, you know, change the subject. I suppose I’ll work as well as anything else. Indignation, misdirection, and expostulation, those you can do. But back up the shit you make up? No, that you can’t do, not on this subject.
P O'Neill 05.30.09 at 3:05 am
If the secured creditors claimed all their collateral, to whom would they sell it?
drscroogemcduck 05.30.09 at 10:32 am
employees of GM were receiving a risk premium. why else did they let GM run their health care plan and float the costs when they could have negotiated with GM for a less beneficial plan but have a trust run it?
Ginger Yellow 05.30.09 at 11:29 am
“The risk argument is a straw mand and a red herring. As Henry implies, there should be no distinction between the claims of the bondholders and the UAW. If Henry will look at the Administration’s perfered plan, he will see that it does not follow this principal. The UAW is owed ~$20B and is supposed to get ~$10B in cash and ~40% of the reorganized company. ”
This is technically correct as a matter of current law, but
a) Bear in mind that the UAW has already agreed to massively reduce what it is owed to try to save the company, whereas bondholders haven’t. If the UAW had acted like bondholders, they could have held out for what they were fully owed before the renegotiation of the retiree healthcare obligations, and would have been much bigger unsecured creditors than the bondholders, and consequently ended up with a bigger share of the pie post-bankruptcy. As a matter of justice, if arguably not law, the UAW shouldn’t be taking an equal haircut this time round.
b) Separate from that, I personally think all obligations to employees should take precedence over other unsecured creditors.
Also there’s been a lot of talk about secured creditors taking priority. I may be wrong, but nothing I’ve read suggest they aren’t in this instance. There are no GM secured bonds – only secured bank loans and asset backed securities. It’s the unsecured bondholders who are being asked to take a bath.
Barry 05.30.09 at 11:33 am
“Here’s hoping that a bankruptcy judge teaches the Obama administration a lesson about fairness and the primacy of contract and bankruptcy law over politcal goals.”
IIRC, in the Chrysler bankruptcy, the judge supported the Obama agent’s position; the group on the other side lost that court battle.
Francis 05.30.09 at 4:19 pm
Bankruptcy class was a long time ago, so I’ll welcome being corrected by someone who actually knows the law, but here are a few thoughts:
1. secured creditors have priority, but only to the extent of their security. The liquidation value of many secured assets is probably close to zero, or even negative. An aging manufacturing plant in a city with really bad weather on land with likely environmental contamination — who wants that asset? Once you waive your right to take the asset in lieu of the debt, you’re just another creditor.
2. Unpaid pension obligations are a lot like debt, except the employee didn’t even want that risk. I’m not sure if pension obligations are superior to bond debt as a matter of law, but they certainly should be.
3. If the position of the government in the Chrysler and (likely) GM bankruptcy proceedings is wrong as a matter of law but the power of the government has overwhelmed the bankruptcy court, then the wronged parties have a remedy — appeal.
Bernard Yomtov 05.30.09 at 4:42 pm
This is not, by the way, about unpaid wages, which U.S. bankruptcy already privleges above other unsercured claims. It’s about funds owed to the pension and retiree healthcare trust. Someone want to explain why the law should favor the UAW retirees over the bondholder retirees?
Because the funds owed to the retiree trusts are de facto unpaid wages?
Patrick 05.30.09 at 5:42 pm
Wait. Maybe I’m really stupid, but I’m not getting something here.
You can’t reward a risk taking investor by ameliorating the harm he suffers when his investment goes belly up. If you do, he’s no longer a risk taker. The risk that his investment would crap out was the risk that made him a risk taking investor in the first place. If you ameliorate that risk you aren’t compensating a risk taker, you’re eliminating the original risk.
Is there something more to this or is it really that stupid?
Henry 05.31.09 at 1:45 pm
Thomas – dealing with each of your ‘points’ in turn.
This is something that I have heard expressed at policy lunches I go to in DC. Happily, you don’t have to take my word for this – you merely need to read the article under discussion (hint: the ‘virtually every academic economist one happens to encounter’ bit is relevant here)
As it happens, this post draws heavily on the text of an email that Ambinder should have received a little time before it went up.
I rather think that I had already done that, in the actual post above. Here are some more.
This is obviously _not_ an article about the specifics of bankruptcy law, to anyone who is not irredeemably stupid or dishonest. It _is_ an article claiming that Obama is trying to undermine the rules of capitalism that rewards should flow to risktakers.
I rather think that I have backed ‘the shit’ up. You haven’t. Which brings us to the broader topic of your ‘contribution’ to discourse here at CT. You have engaged in willfully dishonest and bad behaviour here for a long time. On the suggestion of a different CT author, you are now permanently banned from commenting here. Or, to put it in terms you may understand better, you are being sanctioned for repeatedly wasting the time of this court with vexatious and frivolous pleadings. Goodbye. You won’t be missed.
Chris 05.31.09 at 8:41 pm
Secured creditors go first, because the bankruptcy code says they go first (presumbably because we want to encourage secured lending).
Or because bondholders have *already* been rewriting the bankruptcy code. We have lots of secured lending (indeed, arguably too much), why would “we” want to encourage it? Neither the employee nor the vendor asked to take on risk and neither the employee nor the vendor is being paid to take on risk; if bondholders, who voluntarily agree to be paid for the risk of insolvency, are senior to that kind of involuntary creditor, that’s just obscene.
Corporate bonds should be secured only by the corporation’s net worth if it has any, and therefore, senior only to equity (unless, perhaps, it’s secured *by a specific asset*, like a mortgage, but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about here).
Katherine 06.01.09 at 8:18 am
“poor unadorned stockholders”! Snort. He (and everyone else) seems to have forgotten that stockholders are enormously protected already – by the so-called “corporate veil”.
A company goes bankrupt, say, with massive debts to third parties. Can those third parties go after the investors (who, after all, were the prime movers behind the creation of the debt) for the whole of the money owed to them? No, they cannot. The investors are only liable for the amount that they put in.
This is the whole point of the limited liability company. That’s the protection for the “poor unadorned stockholders” right there.
Tracy W 06.01.09 at 8:48 am
It sounds to me like the bloke has misunderstood the argument about the relative priorities of *secured creditors* versus workers. It’s based on faulty logic, but more of a problem with the learning process than anything more fundamental.
mpowell 06.01.09 at 10:50 am
This point has already been made in 2 and 29, but I just wanted to reiterate. It doesn’t really matter what Ambinder really ‘meant’. To worry about the fate of ‘risk-takers’ in the context of bankruptcy proceedings is just to mark yourself out as a complete ignoramus or as a servant to the interests of those ‘risk-takers’ (ie, powerful). I think with Ambinder its equal parts of both, but we don’t even need to get into the particulars of this particular situation (which will only make his position look far far worse, actually) to note that Ambinder has already shredded any credibility his argument may have had.
Bloix 06.01.09 at 2:13 pm
” You could perhaps make a case on normative grounds that people who took a higher risk should get a bigger share of whatever is left. ”
No, you can’t. The sentence doesn’t even make any sense. The meaning of “took a higher risk” is that they agreed to get a smaller share, or no share, of “whatever is left” if things went badly. If they get a “bigger share” then they didn’t take a “higher risk.”
dsquared 06.01.09 at 2:27 pm
Katherine in #32 has it exactly right. The “plain unadorned stockholders” have done really well and been rewarded massively by society for their risk bearing, by getting zero. They formed a company, borrowed a huge amount from the bank, acquired large amounts of labour on the basis of pensions promises and so on – and now they’re being allowed to walk away having lost no more than their original investment! That’s a fantastic deal!
Ginger Yellow 06.01.09 at 3:31 pm
Not to mention the dividends they continued to extract while the company was making multi-billion dollar losses.
Tim Wilkinson 06.01.09 at 3:34 pm
#32, #36: And that company’s not just an association with ‘limited’ liability (i.e. no liability, just sunk costs), but a legal person – a psychopath, as The Corporation aptly characterises it, if not a perfectly functioning one. This Golem has lots of human-like rights, but will obligingly fall on its sword when its 10%-generating ability comes to an end, taking all its unsatisfied debts and its few other responsibilities with it.
And generally no-one has to answer for the company’s crimes, still less for what would be crimes if a human being with normally functioning brain had done them. The stockholders have no direct control. The upper management (whatever they are calling themselves these days) can almost always claim, often accurately, that they have no personal involvement sufficient for criminal liability – at least if they have 1. any discretion, 2. some ability at designing incentives and 3. a moderately numerous workforce. And the workforce have no liability because they don’t have the big picture (though they might get done for human crimes – possibly as a scapegoat). So the company just pays a fine as the downside of its psycho risk-benefit analysis.
How cool is that! I want one!
michael e sullivan 06.01.09 at 3:42 pm
First I agree completely with henry’s thrust. The rewards for risk-taking come when the company does well and most of the benefit accrues to stockholders. When the company declares bankruptcy is the risk part of the risk taking, where if you don’t lose more than others, where exactly was the additional risk?
One thing not yet mentioned in this discussion is that stockholders *do* get risk mitigation from the government in the form of… wait for it… bankruptcy.
Before modern bankruptcy laws, an equity holder could be saddled with debt over and above the value of his assets. A failed entrepreneur might spend the rest of his life in debtor’s prison, rather than merely liquidating and giving creditors what’s left, or turning over ownership to said creditors in a reorg and afterwords being free of the debt.
But today, under normal corporate conditions, your stock value can never drop below zero.
Henry 06.01.09 at 3:49 pm
Bloix – fair enough – this is not an argument that I believe in myself – what I was trying to do was to say something like ‘even if you grant for the sake of argument that there is a normative case there, this set of claims makes no sense.’
George W 06.01.09 at 4:28 pm
I don’t always agree with the economics of this blog (and that’s when I can understand it) but this post certainly sounds right to me.
Katherine 06.02.09 at 8:13 am
The more I think about this, the more annoyed I am getting. This kind of “risk-takers should get rewards” bollocks is exactly what was/is wrong with the whole banking cock-up – and continues to be, with bailouts aplenty.
The taking of a risk does not mean the getting of a reward. The bloody meaning of risk taking is that you sodding well take a risk that you get nothing. To say anything else is to entirely turn the meaning of “risk” on its head. Gah, I’m getting incoherent.
Tim Wilkinson 06.02.09 at 8:44 am
Yes, the ‘reward’ is actually an incentive built into the system. Not a discretionary tribute to virtue. It may be desirable to have systems which set up incentives for certain kinds of risk-taking (though actually the size of the risk – both of the probabilities and of the benefits/losses – is very relevant, as is background wealth thus marginal disutility of loss). More accurately a system may be set up so as to affect the cost-benefit analysis of economic actors. Risk is always a probability distribution over more than one possible outcome. (there’s also risk-aversion to be considered, which is VERY sensitive to the size of what is risked relative to wealth .
Yes, there’s nothing inherently good – or rewardable – about taking risks. Otherwise I’d be a professional coin-tosser (UK readers: rather than just a…yes, yes). So yes the point is stoopid – and should be framed, if it must be at all, in terms of whether the administration is interfering illegitimately in the (ahem) smooth running of the system, or frustrating legtimate expectations either unfairly or in a way that jeopardises the ‘incentives that make capitalism work’.
engels 06.02.09 at 5:34 pm
Katherine: yes, it’s a bit like saying that philanphrophy ought to be encouraged — by the government compensating rich philanphropists for 100% of any donations they make.
engels 06.02.09 at 5:36 pm
Spelling could also do with more government support as always.
engels 06.02.09 at 6:01 pm
Ambinder wonders ‘what happened to the once inviolate principle of rewarding risk-takers’? Is this not in any case about the stupidest question you can ask round about June 2009? I dunno, maybe a similar thing that happened to the once inviolate principle of spreading democracy in the Middle East by Shock and Awe…
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